Ace's Done Deal

Ace · July 18, 2006, 16:56 hrs

I shall look forward to buying it back from you when it's old and decrepit and you've got some dang fan with wires hanging all over, on it. Yet beautifully packaged and documented, with an extreme amount of postage applied.

Doofus can't even fix his dang DVD player... I don't know why I listen to him.

You know, if that would mean YOU would have to call in to activate Windows I might actually take you up on it...

Ace; I just know I'm gonna order this stuff and someone's gonna go "Ace! You didn't go and order it yet you idiot, did you?!"

Ace · July 19, 2006, 08:17 hrs

Ok, guys.. help....

Was set to go with an Asus M2N-SLI Deluxe NForce 570 motherboard, but just jumped $16. Also, now on the specs it says it has 2 PCI Express x16 graphics slots but one's at 16 and the others at 8, AND if you're running both with identical cards their BOTH at x8 (huh?). I thought SLI boards were supposed to run both at x16, but have seen the one at 16/one at 8 mentioned but this is the first I've seen a BOTH at x8 statement... Isn't that kinda defeating the whole purpose?

Other option is an MSI K9N SLI Platinum board; it states the x16/other at x8 if used... It does not have the "cool and quiet" build of the Asus and doesn't look to have that cooling pipeline... My impression was MSI does boards on the cheaper end, for mass production. Any thoughts between them, or on the whole video card speed thing with SLI?

Danke

Ace; back to square 0

Neon · July 19, 2006, 08:37 hrs

Since there are a limited number of PCI-E lanes available from the chipset, all of the first SLI-capable mobos had to set up that way - 16 lanes to one card, or 2x8 lanes to two cards in SLI. Some of the most recent mobos (nForce 590 SLI and nForce 4
SLI x16) are capable of a full 2x16 lanes to two cards in SLI.

However, if you are going with 7600's, I don't think you will have problems or notice a performance hit with two x8 slots in SLI (not 100% certain of that, so maybe wait for other opinions)

Ace · July 19, 2006, 11:52 hrs

Thanks Neo; from my research it appears SLI might be of benefit but it depends on how the screen is "balanced" (if 2 cards are taking turns or each taking half of each frame) plus if it's performance or quality to be improved. It would appear SLI is only noticeably better IF you're getting to higher screen resolutions (1600...) under demanding conditions. Which I may not venture into, anyway. And it's possible SLI could be slower, as with dual core processors, due to the inherent lag processing time if there's no real need or benefit based on what's it's handling. Also, one higher level single card can outperform 2 mediocre ones, but it depends on what's being processed.

I only found one "test" of a single card against identical same cards, but it cut off since it's a member site. If I could find a comparison of one 7600GT PCI-E against 2 in SLI that's really what I'm wanting to confirm. I realize the performance boost might be 30% or 50% (that it's not going to double the performance, just because 2 cards are sharing the load).

Will look for more on this; maybe I'm not going with SLI after all, but just the AM2 single slot x16.
OR this just in; also have option of Abit Fatal1ty AN9 32X nF 590 SLI with looks to have the TWO x16 option, for $30 more (worth it, over a 570 nForce?).

Ac;e what comes before "0"..

Neon · July 19, 2006, 12:53 hrs

Ace,

Here is a quicky review that has some benchmarks of the 7600GT single card vs. SLI: XFX 7600GT XXX Edition Review Review
Although the reviewer is quite entusiastic, the common wisdom is that you should only go SLI with mid-range cards IF you are really quite sure that you will be adding the second card within ~12 months. Otherwise, just get the best single card you can afford. The reasoning is that there will be a 8800 Ultra XXX (or whatever) available by that time, which will likely smoke the current mid-range SLI setup for less cashola than you coughed up for the two mid-range cards.

By the way, I like your keyboard/mouse selection. Not too fancy, but you should be well served.

Doesn't minus zero come before 0?

scuzzy · July 19, 2006, 13:06 hrs

The x8/x16 SLI thingy issue can be easily resolved. Just get two motherboards and solder them together.

Just make sure you mate the northbridge fans by connecting the black wire to the black wire, and the red wire to the red wire. This should be easy enough, even for a jester.

The best thing is that this will allow you to double the amount of floppy drives in your system.

Scuzzy; you'll thank me later for this

Ace · July 19, 2006, 14:00 hrs

First you'd need to send me a used soldering gun, as I have none.

Neo, thanks for the article. Today the CPU DID drop; AMD 64 3800+ at $115, down from $145. So it's basically a wash with that drop and the Asus price increase.

Since I don't know if I'll ever bother with SLI, but would rather not lose the potential, I'll probably go with the Asus board. Going strictly PCI-E without SLI would naturally decide never to go that route, and going with the Abit board would require a commitment to doing it (to make the 590 worthwhile at the added cost). Seems a decent dual card configuration (like two 7600's) is more the point, than just doubling a lesser card OR overdoing it by doubling a high performance card that doesn't really NEED the SLI trickery.

Now, if MS is going to cut prices on XP by Monday...

Ace; -1

scuzzy · July 19, 2006, 22:56 hrs

No, I'm not sending you any of my guns. Get your own, dang it.

If you go with an ASUS mobo, make sure the RAM you select is on their approved list to avoid compatability problems. I tried to download the user manual for the ASUS M2N-SLI Deluxe through here, but as usual ASUS's download site is broken.

For however good ASUS mobos are, their website is the pits.

Scuzzy; here... hold this target for me :o

Ace · July 20, 2006, 06:50 hrs

It is a counter-intuitive website. And slow, on dial up. I could not find an "approved memory" reference; the board takes DDR2 800 which is what I'm getting to match up.

I went with "the middle thing." Going just PCI-E would prevent ever having the means to double the video card, so that struck me as limiting. Going with the SLI 590 set would compel me to "have" to add one later, to justify the technology and added cost... so I went with the 570 version SLI to be able to do it if I feel like it later and find a 2nd card at a bargain but not feel I have to...

Everything is on the way, so I'll report once it's working. Unless I find it doesn't, at which point I shall sit very quietly, for some time.

Ace; and beep.

Bill · July 20, 2006, 07:40 hrs

So, dude, did you decide to save the $75 and DIY?

Ace · July 20, 2006, 08:02 hrs

No. I figure plugging it in and installing Windows and loading in all the (stuff) I have from the old is enough work. And since Pat recommended Monarch I feel I must appease him.

Mostly, I don't want to do an OJT with these pieces at these prices. And don't want to spend week(s) while my learning curve rises.

Neither Asus or Patriot listed the new board specifically, so I emailed tech support at Patriot who confirmed they've got that board running with the 800 memory and there's no problems.

So I shall now remove myself from the System Build forum and scamper off to the living room, or the wet bar downstairs.

Dud

Bill · July 20, 2006, 17:42 hrs

Just for fun, you should email Asus and ask them about the memory.

Just for fun.

Bill; I hate surprizes.

scuzzy · July 20, 2006, 19:17 hrs

I finally got the stupid ASUS manual to download. Geez, it only took about 20 tries.

Page 2-13 & 2-14 show the RAM "Qualified Vendors List". I could not find Patriot on the list, but found references to several RAM models made by Kingston, Samsung, Micron, Crucial, and a few others I've never heard of.

I don't know what this means, other than Patriot is not on the list. I've read several complaints about ASUS mobos being very picky about RAM that is not on the approved list. It could be that Patriot RAM will work perfectly fine, or it could mean that you might have issues. I simply don't know.

Anyway, I'll see if I can copy the list here.

EDIT: I tried, but I couldn't find an easy way of copying the list

Bill · July 20, 2006, 21:28 hrs

Just for fun, you should email Asus about the memory.

Just for fun.

Bill!

Neon · July 20, 2006, 22:38 hrs

My Asus anecdote:

I had (and still have) problems with the Suspend to RAM/Suspend to HDD functions of both of my Asus boards, so emailed them about the issues. I received a canned response months later, by which time I had updated the BIOS and done some more troubleshooting, so I emailed an update. Several months later, they sent me another canned response. I tried again, but no response yet, going on 2 years. It may yet arrive, if Google will let it through the Great Firewall.

They host user forums at their website, but they're only usable when the Asus website is working. Of course, the site is quite slow, and VERY, VERY, VERY UNSTANDARD HTML. I think it was written with FrontPage 91. >:( Anyway, the Asus forums are mostly full of people screaming about how the latest BIOS version didn't fix whatever is wrong with their system. They don't appear to be moderated, but occasionally there is useful information, if you can find somebody that knows what they're talking about, and you have the patience for the page to load each topic.

scuzzy · July 21, 2006, 00:33 hrs

My biggest bone of contention with ASUS is their next to useless website.

ASUS makes some fine motherboards, but their poor customer service and poor website interface may get me to look at another manufacturer next time around. I've purchased 3 ASUS motherboards, and they have served me well. But it is frustrating to no end to try to get anything off of their site. I'm not sure that it's worth the heartache.

Scuzzy; Ace! you haven't placed your order yet, have you? Aw geez you bonehead, you should have waited.

pat · July 22, 2006, 08:23 hrs

I?ve used 3 Asus motherboards in the last 2 years for builds for friends/family. I hadn?t had any trouble getting anything from their website but, I haven?t tried lately.

The only problem I?ve had was with an AV8 Deluxe. The integrated sound would crackle when playing DVD movies. The addition of a separate sound card cured the problem though and otherwise its been fine.

Carskick · July 22, 2006, 13:39 hrs

I agree, ASUS has a very mediocre site. However, most of my HPs have had ASUS boards, and I just got the ASUS board for my desktop. All have never had issue. My friend also used his in his build. I tried Epox, and many swear by them, and I liked it, but mine had a few minor booting issues, and it died 8 months in. However, RMAing it was easy and moderately fast.

MSI, Asus, Epox, DFI, and Gigabyte are all boards to consider.

scuzzy · July 22, 2006, 13:46 hrs

I have to agree that ASUS makes great boards. Although I would consider something different next time, it would probably be very difficult not to go with another ASUS.

Of the last 3 ASUS boards I purchased, one was DOA. It was an A8V Deluxe, which NewEgg exchanged with minimal fuss. Aside from that, the boards have performed exceptionally well, which is what one wants.

Still, it would be nice if ASUS would get its act together with its rotten website. I too have been able to get what I need, at least most of the time, but rarely without hassle.

Ace · July 22, 2006, 14:10 hrs

Well, it's going to be an Asus. ASUS. ASUS. However big they are. I would figure Abit would be in the top tier, per what I've seen and Neon's early advice. Just happens that the Asus fit the configuration and price I was looking for. Also, am now using an Asus which has salvaged my "old" unit. Just as an FYI, my CPU is now running at 59 C where before it was at 68 or so as "normal." Since nothing else changed I'd credit the board. I'm not familiar with DFI boards; I did look at an MSI but it didn't seem to compare as far as design (didn't offer the AMD cool design and didn't have the fanless cooling pipeline).

I will say I'm pleased with Patriot Memory's site and CS; got an immediate personal response from my inquiry on compatibility. I've got my peripherals all laid out, just awaiting a computer to connect them to...

In looking over my old Gigabyte board compared to the ASUS, I'd say the Gigabyte had maybe a better look and design and layout but the Asus seems better as far as quality and materials... Gigabyte seemed to have a farther ranging BIOS tweaking capability, although that sure didn't help me in playing around with it... Simple is probably preferable, for that.

Ace; the mailman just came; maybe there's a computer in my mailbox.

pat · July 22, 2006, 14:17 hrs

I?ve been happy with my Gigabyte board and would certainly not hesitate to purchase another.

Their website can be a little finicky at times also though.

Ace · July 22, 2006, 15:06 hrs

I was happy with mine too, when it worked. They were typically aloof as seems to be the norm, with a "no, we've got nothing to offer to help you figure out what's wrong why don't you swap out parts and see what happens..."
this just in:

Did get a response from Asus on the memory validation; said they don't do that, and to check with the memory maker and gave tips on that... Since I already confirmed with Patriot that they're using my choice in the ASUS board that's that. You have to wade through the "group" Q/A-forum stuff on the ASUS website but there is a direct tech support/CS contact means.

It seems like a lot of these companies are Asian, or something. I think I'm going to stick with just American-made parts from now on. Like Patriot memory, and Altec-Lansing speakers which are from Denver.

Genuine Dang American parts. And Microsoft stuff; it's the best.

Ace; I asked them and they said it was.

pat · July 23, 2006, 10:10 hrs

Huh?

Heck, I probably wouldn?t have ever gone with the Gigabyte if it weren?t for your recommendation. Can?t remember if I ever said thanks though, so, hey, thanks for that.

Ace · July 23, 2006, 11:07 hrs

Wha?

Shoot, you're the one who didn't tell me they break in 4 years. And I have a sneaking suspicion they aren't American made. I thought they were Greek, due to the name, but it's almost like they're made overseas or something going by the Gigasite. You know, I don't do the volume you guys do... I've only owned 3, once I get another one, and I don't even know what board the Quantex had. Back then, they didn't talk about that but just the other components. I think the chipset was a keypoint, but nothing deeper.

I remember I picked the Gigabyte from a board comparison on Tom's Hardware, back then. It came out favorably, along with an Asus, and the Asus cost more so there ya go. Now that I'm in a close personal relationship with the Asus staff, I figure I may as well try a new one by them. Going by the original sales invoice, this Asus board I'm using now cost a LOT more than the new one... Isn't that weird how technology gets better and cheaper? Sorta like Genuine American Made Cars. They get cheaper. Well, at least when they aren't selling, which is any day that ends in "y." And cheaper made, using our leading technology. I know that the labor costs, due to health care coverage, so they should probably consider not offering health coverage on cars.

And thanks for recommending Monarch; they're good guys. You know, that came from me almost buying from ABS Pc when they did a bait and switch pricing on me, and then I was looking at another provider and Scuzzy pointed out their lousy Resellers rating plus the fact that they were the same stinking company(s). If I lived in Georgia, I'd probably just stop by the shop and buy stuff. I could even go visit Whiz and see if his house ever settled down.

I'll poast phoatos and a performance evaluation once I get set. I'm going to keep the old one up and running until I'm sure I've transferred everything and am set.

Ace; your welcome.

scuzzy · July 23, 2006, 13:06 hrs

Huh?

Bologna. Baloney. BallOfHoney. AceSUS does too tell you which memory is approved. It's printed in their super-hard-to-download manual. The list used to be on their hard-to-access-website when I bought my A8V Deluxe.

Scuzzy; I don't make this stuff up. If you had a few hours to attempt to download the manual you'd see for yourself.

Ace · July 23, 2006, 15:34 hrs

Remember, I'm on dialup. We're talking weeks, here. Not that we'd know what time it gets dark in Indiana. (see "tomorrow").

No, they don't change the dang manual when new cutting edge American-Made Memory like Patriot comes out with their Brand New Cutting Edge technology of 800

hold it. I think 1000 just came out. Dangit.

Anyway, I converse with ASUS on a daily basis or so, and they said you must've filled in a bogus list price on that motherboard because there's no way one would cost that much. Now. Also, see if they have a DVD player you can download.

And this from the guy who struggled to seat his memory... I can not only seat it, I can fry the dang DIMM slot while I'm at it.

Later, I am going to download Encyclopedia Brittanica to see what's new since the last edition.

Ace; I could probably go with World Book and save some time.

Neon · July 23, 2006, 16:06 hrs

Price cuts are here!

AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Dual-Core 512K Per Core 90nm (Socket AM2) (Retail Box-w-Fan) $158

Did you buy a CPU yet?

scuzzy · July 23, 2006, 17:10 hrs

Ace! Dang it!

I told you that you should have waited.

Scuzzy; you never listen

Ace · July 23, 2006, 18:59 hrs

Of course I didn't "wait" you maroon. I got a single core 2.4 ghz for $115; who the heck would want two 2.0 ghz cores for $43 more?!

Ace; that'd be nuts.

Bill · July 23, 2006, 21:20 hrs

The SQUIRRELS would love it.

Bill

News:

Ace's Done Deal