Hi,

please excuse me if these appears like a dumb questions but here goes:

1. I have read a review on Toms Hardware on choosing a processor (Dec 2003). In it they compare/show an overclocked xp2600 giving similar results to an unclocked xp3200+. Does this mean that:

The 2600 is just a slowed down 3200+ (by using a lower multiplier?

or

Can the 3200+ be clocked even faster?


2. Also I am building an xpc on a budget and want to know what platform should I go from the following, I assume the AMD will give more bangs for my bucks:

Socket A (cheap, seems to have some upgrade potential, I plan to use an xp2000 from my current machine, and can also go up to a 3200+ eventually BUT is this 'old' technology now that the 64 are out?).

or

Go for a 64 (it offers the latest platform that I assume will be supported for many years....but even the smallest processor is expensive!).

or

Go for a P4(I know very little about intel but is this platform due to be updated in the future?)

At the moment I am considering the Shuttle SN45G, any other options?

All opinions gratefully received,

Thanks

Ooops forgot to mention,

I thought of going for two sticks of 512k 400DDR.

1. Is this the correct speed for a xp2000 upto xp3200+?
These processors are different speeds so I assume the memory will only reach its maximum performnce/speed on the higher processor (but I thought it would be better to buy faster DDR for future proofing).

2. I thought of buying Crucial or Geil are these worth the extra money or should i stick with generic?

3. Basically whats cas latency? and is it better for the number to be high or low?

Welcome to Poasters, novicepcer.

The XP2600 and XP3200 are two separate processors. However, the XP2600 can be overclocked to perform like an XP3200. However, this comes at the risk of damaging the processor, since it was not designed to run at a higher speed. It will require a high performance heatsink/fan to keep the extra heat from destroying the processor, and you can kiss the warranty goodbye.

I don't know if the 3200 can be overclocked, but it probably can. However, the same rules apply for overclocking.

Yes, AMD does provide more bang for the buck as compared to Intel. That's why I stick with AMD. You are right about 64 being more expensive. However, you'll have to decide if you want to spend the extra money. One thing to consider is that the software to take advantage of 64 bit computing isn't here yet, but it's coming. My recommendation is to get the most computer that you can reasonably afford. 32 bit computing will still be around for awhile, but it is nice to have the latest and greatest. :)

I personally favor MSI and Asus motherboards. Check reviews before you buy, since there's plenty to consider.

Welcome to Poasters. I'll agree with most of Scuzzy's advice. It is possible to overclock the CPU, but that means running it out of its specifications, which voids the warranty. It is possible to destroy the CPU, motherboard components, or even daughter cards if you don't know what you are doing. If you are a novice builder, I do not recommend that you overclock - wait until you have some more experience to decide whether it is worth it.

Tom's observation that many of the XP 2600+ (Barton) chips can be overclocked a lot is consistent with what others have found - the same applies to the 2500+. However, there is no guarantee. Some chips do not pass factory testing at higher speeds without giving errors, so they are marked down to lower ratings. They can still be overclocked, but may cause errors. Some chips do pass testing at higher speeds, but get marked down in order to meet heavy market demand for that model chip. These can often be overclocked with no problems. Of course, you cannot determine which chip you have purchased - and AMD/Intel will not tell you. So as I said, no guarantees with overclocking.

No matter which technology you choose, it will eventually be obsolete. You can try to plan ahead, but the rapid pace of hardware development makes it difficult to upgrade any platform for more than 2 to 3 years. AMD plans to phase out socket A after this year, but CPUs will still be available for several years. The current Athlon 64 platform is socket 754. After the release of the Athlon 64 3700+ later this year, Athlon 64 chips will move to socket 939. Athlon XP chips will move from socket A to socket 754.

The Shuttle SN45G currently supports up to the Athlon XP 3200+, so that is an acceptable solution. You asked if there are any other solutions, but there are hundreds of other motherboards; it all depends on what features you want. There are a good dozen or so SFF boxes like the Shuttle.

You should have no problem going with DDR400 now and running it at a slower speed until you get an XP 3200+. Depending on the motherboard, it may be possible to run the memory at full speed even with a slower CPU, but most testing shows that results in slower overall performance.

Do not buy generic RAM. There is no way to know if it is good quality. Crucial or Geil should be ok.

CAS in CAS latency stands for column address strobe. It refers to the number of CPU clock cycles the system waits until it accesses a column address in the memory. The longer it waits, the slower overall performance. CAS 2 memory is thus faster than CAS 2.5 or CAS 3.

Thanks Guys for the clear explanation...I now know what cas is!

Two further questions if I may:

1. Neon you stated that 64 is on a 754 board/mount (i assume thats pins on the processor) at the moment but it will be going to  a 939...also that socket A will then go to a 754 board/mount.

How many pins does the socket A have at the moment? and with A going to 754 does this mean socket A processors will not fit?

2. If I go the socket A mobo/SN45G Shuttle route will I be able
put a 64 mobo in the case in the future,? and will my 400mhz DDR memory still be able to operate in a 64 board?

Thanks once again,

novicepcer

Socket A has 462 pins. Socket A processors will not fit in a socket 754 mount.

If you go with a socket A mount motherboard, you will not be able to use 64 bit chips in it, because it only has 462 pins. The current AMD 64s have 754 pins and they will be moving to 939 pins in the future.

As to RAM, PC3200 (400 mhz DDR) will work with Athlon XP (socket A) or AMD 64 (socket 754) processors.

Mark H

AMD has two 64-bit socket processors -- 754 (Athlon64) and 940 (Opteron and Athlon64FX).  Neither is interchangeable with the other, nor with Socket-A (462).

Buy what you need now - by the time you upgrade, chances are ATX will be a thing of the past - Intel will be releasing BTX shortly, which completely revises the mainboard and power supply form factors.  AMD boards will follow suit as the manufacturers shift from ATX to BTX.

novice pcer
Didn't we have this discussion on another board?

Bill

No Bill,

this one is slightly different (and not everybody will look at each board).

These are very much specific questions that I needed to know to improve my (limited) understanding of computing technology.

The people who have replied have done a sterling job by answering the questions I have asked in a simple way(no jargon or wizardry). I now have a better understanding to make an informed choice.

Thank you all for sharing your knowledge.

Novice pcer

novice pcer,
I wasn't being critical or judgemental.  You have a novel screen name and I remember a similiar exchange.  
This forum and the poasters work hard to share knowledge, willingly.

Bill-

No offence taken Bill (perhaps i didnt use enough smilies in my reply).

novice pcer