(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v80/Carskick/newegg.gif)
Total including shipping: $637.46
Here is my NewEgg list.
I chose the 1GB dual channel ValueRAM becuase it is so much cheaper than the the high performance RAM, yet reviews show the Corsair ValueRAM runs at pretty good latency, and has been successfully overclocked over 220mhz. It's either this or 512MB, and I'd rather do this. The dual channel will make up for it being slightly slower. How does everything else look? And this will be used with my Antec case and PSU. I will buy Windows XP locally, since I have places that sell it for pretty good deals retail. I am considering doing a small overclock on the system if temperatures are really low. We'll just see how it goes. I'd probably just overclock it to 3200 or 3400+ speeds. So let me know what you think, and if I have any incompatibilities or anything.
Cars,
Looks good to me. If the corsiar sale ends before you order, I am having good luck with Muskin, 1 gig DR 400 was $118 when I bought it.
I have no experience trying to overclock it however.
Bill
Here's a good read on value RAM from AnandTech: *click here* (http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2392)
oops - might want to check that link.
Oops is right - let's try this again:
Here's a good read on value RAM from AnandTech: *click here* (http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2392)
The NEC floppy is supposedly the quietest of the crop available. That is also the one I purchased for my daughter's computer.
Quote from: Whizbang on April 11, 2005, 20:49 hrs
The NEC floppy is supposedly the quietest of the crop available. That is also the one I purchased for my daughter's computer.
I'll bet it isn't as quiet as a USB flash drive. ;D
Seriously, I am including a floppy drive in my latest build only as a "just in case", and because the Mitsumi model I purchased has the flash card reader built in.
Quote from: scuzzy on April 11, 2005, 21:13 hrs
I'll bet it isn't as quiet as a USB flash drive. ;D
Seriously, I am including a floppy drive in my latest build only as a "just in case", and because the Mitsumi model I purchased has the flash card reader built in.
The USB drive is in another world from the floppy. I know that a 2gig drive is way more than I need, but just the idea of that much transferable data in a "stick of gum" is phenomenal. And actually, the thing isn't even a drive at all. It is a "cold storage" static memory device.
Thanks for the great link! I chose the Corsair RAM, as it was a good deal, with or without the sale, and seems to have good ratings, and I've heard people having success with small overclocks. I was also looking at OCZ, but opted for the Corsair to save $$$. After that review, I may reconsider. I won't be buying right away anyways, so no hurry. I'll keep my eye out for the OCZ Value and Premier, as they have low CAS, low price, and great overclockability.
So the NEC is the quietest floppy, eh? I only got it because it was the cheapest on Newegg, was black, and I've had good luck with NEC stuff lately, so why not? I won't use it too often anyways. It's like a VCR. Nothing special or great, but a must. I can't believe how reliant we are on dated technology. Anyways, how does everything else look? I liked the MSI motherboard, and the MSI video card looks really nice, as far as cooling and included software. I was originally looking at the EVGA 6600GT, but it's heat sinks were covered with a stupid picture. I believe this should run cooler. Anyone know anything about this mobo? Quality, stability, BIOS, overclockability, anything? I am sure about the optical, hard, and CPU. Everything else is fair game. I really like the price to performance of the 6600GT. I love that card. If I have to, I can save money by getting a plain 6600, but they aren't nearly as powerful.
I am choosing the Corsair Value Select because it's the cheapest quality RAM I could find that's approved by ASUS for use on the A8V Deluxe motherboard. I have no desire to OC in any manner, so it seems like a smart buy.
As for the DVD/RW, I am going with Plextor since they appear to have the only units available with SATA connectors, at least through NewEgg.
Sounds good. The MSI mobo I am looking at comes with round IDE cables, which is nice, and I will use with the optical. It comes with serial, which I will use with my hard drive. There should be much less clutter than the current HP.
So your planning on the corsair value as well? Years ago, I was told to avoid value RAM, but now, the CAS is so low, and some is even overclockable, and they have lifetime warranties, so why not?
You are getting the 90nm version of the athlon64 3000+ right. Its a far superior processor more overclockability, Lower temp, not much more expensive than the 130nm.
Yes, I am. I figure it'd be cooler and a better overclocker. I don't think Newegg sells 130nm 3000+ for socket 939 anymore anyways.
Sorry for running two threads at the same time.
Here is my updated list, going back to AGP. I'm not sure what brand 6600GT I am going to get yet, but this one looks good for now.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v80/Carskick/list.gif)
I forgot to include shipping, but it's only like $20.
Unless you're in need of SATA for some other reason, Best Buy has a 160G Hitachi EIDE drive for $69.99 after rebates this week - twice the size for $10 more.
Hmm. Well, I am not buying the computer now, but that is a pretty good deal. The only thing is I hate mail in rebates. And on Newegg, the 160GB Western Digital is $100, and I almost rather get that, and I was considering it, but For my needs, I don't need more than 120GB, and 80 is probably sufficient. This computer will no longer be recording TV, as the HP is now, so not a whole lot of space is needed. Also, I rather have the SATA for it's improvements and reducing clutter in the case. I will keep my eyes open, and maybe Best Buy will have another sale on a WD hard drive, which I much rather have. I'm personally not a Hitachi/IBM fan for HDDs. Thanks for the heads up, though.
Edit: I was poking around on Best Buy's site, and they have a Western Digital 120GB EIDE for $50 after reabtes. That is appealing. I could do this build piece mil, but most of the parts I can't imagine getting much cheaper.
PS: I just realized the beginning was somewhat "stream of conciousness." Sorry about that.
Is Seagate not a consideration? I ordered the Seagate SATA 160GB (NCQ) 8MB Cache from NewEgg for $106. Seagate makes great drives, and the 5 yr warranty is the best.
I have become very shy of mail-in rebates. If it's not an instant rebate, then it's worthless as far as I'm concerned. I don't need the trouble nor heartache. I've simply had too many bad experiences with mail-in rebates.
So far, Best Buy has been pretty good with rebates - faster than the manufacturer. I have bought a couple of Seagate drives from there with large rebates, usually split between BB and Seagate, along with a Linksys router and Uniden phone - in all cases, BB got the rebates out within 30 days; Seagate and Linksys took longer, but came through.
They count on people not using the rebates, but if you do, they have a pretty good online tracking system.
I?m not a big fan of the rebate game either, but I?d have to agree that Best Buys has gotten pretty good with getting the rebates out in a decent time frame.
I also bought two Seagate drives last year at Best Buy with rebates along with a monitor and a compact flash card. All of those rebates were received in a timely manner.
The one that took forever was on a Plextor drive that I bought from Newegg. I had just about given up on seeing that. I did finally get it though, but I waited 3 months for it.
I am personally a Western Digital fan. One of our HPs came with a Segate, and this may sound funny, but I like the sound of Western Digitals more. For the same price, I rather have a WD, but if a Segate is a better deal, I will go that route.
I was just thinking, I could put the Antec PSU into the HP for now. They have the exact same dimentions, and I compared their pin configuration, and I believe they are identical:
Bestec HP PSU (http://www.power-on.com/atx12v250bt.html)
Antec SL350 manual (http://www.antec.com/pdf/manuals/solution_pw_en.pdf)
Do you think it would work if I did this?
I want to do this as the new powersupply would probably proveide cleaner voltages, and provide better airflow, and run cooler, thus the whole computer should run a little cooler.
Quote from: pat on April 13, 2005, 07:06 hrs
....The one that took forever was on a Plextor drive that I bought from Newegg. I had just about given up on seeing that. I did finally get it though, but I waited 3 months for it.
Ditto on the Plextor rebate. I just received my Plextor rebate on 4/14/2005, which is a little over three months since I mailed it (also from Newegg). All other rebates were within two months.
Its sad the other states dont have the same rules as california which requires a rebate check to be sent out within 1 month of the rebate being recieved. Although that is great its still not worth it to move to the god forsaken place we know as california.
Quote from: slaxorz on April 17, 2005, 14:38 hrs
Its sad the other states dont have the same rules as california which requires a rebate check to be sent out within 1 month of the rebate being recieved. Although that is great its still not worth it to move to the god forsaken place we know as california.
Apparently, Soyo does not know that. I finally received the second of my two rebate checks for a total of $110.00 from Soyo after having argued with them for three months that the reason I did not separate the requests for the $50.00 and $60.00 rebates was that both required the original UPC code. The only way I could comply with that request was to send the requests in the same envelope. One would think that their oversight would have embarrassed them, but the only response that I kept getting was that I did not comply with the rules. The only way I was able to get their attention was to tell them just to forget the matter and that I would never purchase a Soyo product again. The final total for the DRAGON Ultra was $14.00. That was a tough fight.
Well, I cut out the wood behind my computer to improve airflow, but do you think I should also put the Antec PSU in the HP? Does anybody know if it will work properly, or is the PSU propriatory?
Back to the possible new computer:
I decided I will use my current slave as my Master in my new PC. It's an IDE Western Digital 7200RPM w/8MB Cache. I'll live with IDE for a while. Ill tuck the cable or something.
Anyways, my bigest delema now is motherboard. I need an AGP Motherboard that has good integrated sound, and good overlockability, including AGP/PCI lock. I prefer ASUS and Nforce3 Ultra chipsets, but I don't know if I can get both for a good price.
Here are the newegg motherboards that fit my basic needs (http://www2.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Manufactory=&PropertyCodeValue=709%3A7495&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=734%3A7577&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&description=&MinPrice=&MaxPrice=&SubCategory=22&Submit=Property)
I don't really want EPOX, ECS, or Soltek, or a SIS chipset, so which one would be the best for me?
Passive cooling would be nice as well, but isn't a high prority. Price and the above mentioned are msot important. Thanks!
There aren't any stock passive nForce3 boards (there was a Gigabyte board but they now fit an active cooler) so if you want passive you have to fit your own (and it will probably need bending slightly to fit). The stock coolers on nForce3 boards are too loud for me, but most people would be satisfied with them. Most of the VIA boards are passive.
Cars,
Of the list, I have the gigabyte K8NS (not C) 939 ultra and it has been trouble free. I must add that I have only one experience and nothing to compare it to but..It went together easily, everything was well labeled and it has been great since the first boot.
Bill
I'd go for the Epox board - they make reliable boards and have good documentation.
The 9NDA3+/J has received good reviews, there's a lot for the money, it overclocks well.
I've been considering the Chaintech, but not so much the Epox. I have no experience with their boards. Wasn't somebody on the forum complaining that their Epox had an IRQ problem in the PCI slots?
It does have great reviews, especially for overclocking. I will strongly consider it. I also like the extra space between the AGP and PCI slots, though I don' really like where the power connectors are, seems to block rear flow. I think I could make it work, though. Thanks for the assurance on that board, Neon.
And as far as passive vs active, being extremely quiet isn't that important. If only 1 or 2 components make a little extra noise, it's okay, as long as it doesn't sound like a cheap CD drive is spun up all the time. ::)
It was me, but I recommend the EPoX board. The problems I had can probably be attributed to the SoundBlaster card.
I'd go for the "J" variant over the "+" as there is quite a large price difference for not much to lose (IEE1393, 2 additional SATA, additional ethernet).
Okay then. It is now on my list of considerations. It is cheaper than the chaintech too, and I don't need firewire, 2 ethernets, or extra SATA.
BTW the details on the EPoX page are wrong, the 9NDA3J has 8-channel ALC850 audio, same as the 9NDA3+. I also had the "power pack" included with mine with the screwdriver and mini heatsinks.
Documentation is excellent and comes in substantial sealable bag to keep everything together.
If I have one complaint it's a trivial one - the colour!
That is promicing. I noticed a Gigabyte GA-K8NSC poped up on newegg for about $10 less than the Epox. What are your thoughts on that board in comparison? Gigabyte should be a good brand, and I like the position of the power connectors better and the color. Though I like the EPOX sound better and the extra space for the AGP card. Anyone know a comparison on a pack of 939 nforce3 ultra boards? Maybe a direct comparison would make the choice easier. Price is good, but reliability and performance is better.
The GA-K8NSC is a slightly older chipset, nForce3 250Gb vs nForce3 Ultra. There is a difference somewhere but I don't know what it is as the Ultra is sometimes called the 250Gb Ultra. I think it may just be the HT link speed in which case it's trivial.
The Gigabyte uses Marvell Ethernet rather than nVidia which you may see as either a positive or negative. I chose a board with nVidia ethernet because it's definately PHY based rather than hung off the PCI bus whereas with Marvel et al you can't be sure. I didn't want a Gigabit adapter sucking up the PCI bandwidth needed by my TV cards.
Gigabyte do an Ultra board which is still a little cheaper than the EPoX but not by much.
I don't know of any reviews comparing those two particular boards together, but here are some worth reading:
EP-9NDA3+
http://www.hexus.net/content/reviews/review.php?dXJsX3Jldmlld19JRD05Mjc=
http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2253
http://www.tweaktown.com/document.php?dType=review&dId=744
GA-K8NS (can't find the "C")
http://www.hexus.net/content/reviews/review.php?dXJsX3Jldmlld19JRD04MjA=
Overall the Gigabyte is better layed out, but I specifically wanted the chipset to be in a specific location so I could fit a passive cooler so I went with the EPoX. The PHY-based Ethernet is a consideration if you're running at 1000Mbps speeds but probably not so much of an issue at 10/100Mbps.
I guess I'll choose whichever seems better at the time of the purchase, but for now, I'll say I'm going with the epox.
If you get the Epox, make sure you also order a can of spray paint. ;D
What's with you guys and the green hate?
Not like it makes the features better or the overclocking higher, but I think the EPoX boards look great. Those cherry red MSI boards with pastel orange, purple, green, and yellow sockets, on the other hand - :P
Honestly, the color is not too important to me. There is no acrylic window or anything so it does not matter that much. The green is very traditional, like an intel board or something. I kind of liked the ASUS yellow myself, or maybe that is just what I am used to. Anyways, I am not going to base my decission on color. I am a functional kind of guy. ;)
Personally, I prefer Katarina Witt black. Actually, whatever she is wearing is what I like. Scuzzy, can I borrow your spray paint?
Okay, I'm back on the new PC bandwagon. My friend is going to join me with my computer repair business, and our goal is to each earn at least $300. He buys my HP, not including the 2nd HDD and capture card for $300, and I use that plus the $300 I earned to build my new machine. Good plan?
I would need another hard drive to record video, so I was thinking, what if I bought a 160GB from Sams, as it is only $80, then mated it with the 80GB in RAID 1, using the leftover 80GB on the 160 for a single partition to record video on? Can you RAID with IDE-100, and is it worth it? Or would I just be better off with the 80GB and 160GB as seperate drives. The possibility of data loss due to RAID is of no concern, as the only thing important on my computer, music, video, documents, and pictures, are backed up at least once a month. I'm more worried about if it's worth it performance-wise, and is it possible IDE wise?
Edit: The Epox motherboard I am looking at, as well as the GIGABYTE, state that they support PATA RAID, so I guess I'm set. What are your opinions on RAID.
Here is my current shopping list
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v80/Carskick/List.gif)
I will be buying a 160GB hard drive at my local Sams Club, so after rebates, the total should be just over $600. Of course, I will use my Antec case and 350watt PSU. How's the setup, and what of RAID?
The 9NDA3 does NV RAID on both SATA and IDE.
If I were to set up a Raid array in your situation, I would use three drives. One as a stand-alone primary master. I would use this one for installing the OS and all programs, etc.
For the video storage I would then use two identical drives for the RAID 0 array.
Although for all but the most demanding tasks, I doubt you?ll really see that much improvement in speed. But what the heck, may as well give it a try, can?t hurt anything as long as you keep good backups.
The system looks good although you might want to consider something like this
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16821104103 it adds a lot of functionality to a 3.5 in drive that for the most part is rarely used.
DO NOT set up your system with RAID0 as the boot drive. Your chances of losing data are doubled relative to running a single drive, and there is evidence from test after test that RAID 0 does little or nothing for performance on the desktop.
The ONLY time RAID 0 makes sense from a risk/reward standpoint is if you use it in RAID 0+1 format. That is, set up two RAID 0 arrays, mirrored across the pairs. Of course, this is expensive as it requires four drives and a dual-channel controller.
I have never seen any practical advantage for raid. I consider it more a bragging gimmick than an actual improvement because of all the added expense for duplicating efforts.
Cars,
A follow-up on Pat's suggestion- The Floppy/card reader combo requires both a USB connection and a floppy cable to be fully functional. I recall Scuzzy commenting on this when I was trying to eliminate the floppy ribbon cable.
And there is a note in one of the reviews on Newegg.
Bill
As for the combo USB Flash Reader & Floppy Drive, Cars might be more interested in this black unit (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16821104104).
Bill is correct - it will still require an IDE cable to run the floppy drive. However, I strongly recommend the unit anyway, especially if you have a digital camera. The floppy drive makes an average amount of noise for a floppy, but I so rarely use the floppy that it doesn't really matter. The flash reader works pretty much as expected, and it is 100% silent. If you can hear the flash reader in operation, then it's likely you're hearing the gears spinning around in your brain. ;D
One more note on the Raid thing, the way I understand it is that if you use two drives that are not the same size, your array will only take advantage of the smallest, slowest drive. So if you use an 80 and a 160-gig dive you will be left with a 160-gig drive after you complete the array. I don?t believe you will be able to partition off a separate 80-gig partition from the 160. The array will also be limited to the speed of the slowest drive.
Query is right about the fault tolerance, that is why I suggested a separate drive for your OS and critical files.
On the floppy drive with the card reader, that Epox board has two USB pin headers so you should be ok with that. I didn?t notice you were getting all black drives so the black one would be a better choice. That is the same drive I just put in a system, it works very well.
I?m going to get a beige one; I will loose one of my front USB ports though since I only have one pin header. Fortunately my front USB wire has separate connectors so I can just pull one row to plug in the card read connector.
Whether RAID 0, 1, 0+1 or 5, the total size of the array is a multple of the smallest drive in the set.
I've been in positions where I had to replace a failed 4.5G drive in a RAID5 array -- no one makes drives below about 18G these days - it's kind of annoying to have to use an 18G drive, only to get 4.5G from it, but unless you replace all the drives and rebuild the array, that's what you would get.
Possibility of Data loss isn't that important with this machine, the main thing is performance, and if RAID can't add much of that, or allow me to partition my 160Gig as I want, then I'll just go with the standard master slave situation.
As far as the floppy/flash, it is a good idea, but I actually already have an external USB 2.0 8in1, so it isn't necissary. Thanks for the idea though. Another thing, I primarily use xD, and it's the one format it doesn't support, so it isn't the right one for me.
I'm trying to figure out how I would partition the drives. I want the OS and games on the outside of the drives for optimal speeds, and video, pictures, and music on the inside.
I could just make each hard drive 1 big partition, or I could split them up:
160GB HDD:
5GB WinXP
125GB Games and programs
30GB Pictures & Documents
80GB HDD:
80GB video.
I'll think I'll make my 80GB just video, so if I want to transfer it and my Video capture to another machine, it will be an easy process. I could hopefully plug the drive into any other WinXP machine, and have it just work as a slave.
Also, how much space should I partition for WinXP? Is it possible to reinstall windows leaving everything else intact via this partitioning system. I guess it would just be the same as Windows repair. Any ideas on this? Thanks!
Edit: Also, my friend fell through. Due to his dad's stubborness about speding money on certain things, despite their wealth, he will not be buying my computer. I have other friends who still might want to buy it, but this will delay the building of my new computer.
5GB for Windows XP is not a good idea. I would set 8GB as an absolute minimum, although 10GB or greater is probably a better bet.
Cars,
2 months ago I set up a new HD with XP home. My C: drive is 13G (actually 12.5) and with XP Home and just a few apps. there is 65% free space or about 4.5G. used. A 5G partition leaves little room for much else.
Bill-
Cars, if you want performance, why not go with a WD Raptor - fast seek times, low latency, very reliable - for the OS and games, then use your jumbo 160GB hdd for file storage.
The main reason is price. Of course this way I wouldn't need the 160GB, but the 74GB Raptor costs at least $170, more than double what the 160GB at Sams costs. Raid was being considered, as it wouldn't cost extra, but I just can't afford to spend that much on the hard drive, esspecially when I'm still having problems forking out $330 for the CPU, motherboard, and RAM, which are necessities.
I was at Best Buy today, and I saw a WD 120GB IDE HDD for $100 with a $50 mail in rebate. Had it been only $50 with no rebate, I would have bought it, but I didn't have the cash to front that. I could always go back and buy it, waiting until I get the rebate to buy more stuff, doing the piece meal thing. and If I buy the hard drive and end up not using it or one of my 80GBs, I can sell them as refurbed to my customers in my computer biz. I could always get a raptor at a later date to improve perforamce, but I think getting the primary parts and a basic hard drive is more of a priority.
The problem with the retail WD (non-Raptor) drives is the short 1-year warranty. You're better off getting an OEM unit - it won't have a stellar rebate, but will be cheaper than retail, and in the case of the 8M cache units, will have a 3-year warranty.
That, or buy a Seagate or Hitachi retail drive with rebate - they have 5 and 3 year warranties.
So do some Maxtors, but I wouldn't risk a drive from that manufacturer at the moment.
If I newegg hard drives, I'll definitely go OEM, but if it is a much better deal at a store, I'll go with that.
Since no one is lined up to buy my HP, I think I'll donate it to the living room as an AV machine, leaving one hard drive, the capture, and video. Then I'll use the newer 80GB slave as my new computer primary. Later on, I can make it a slave in my new computer, and get a raptor once they come down and I can get one for a great price. For now, I'll concentrate on getting the rest of the computer setup. I want to earn some more money first, as well as see if prices come down even more. We will see, but it is looking pretty good this time. ;) ;D
Okay, it's pretty definite now. I've convinced myself and one parent my new computer and the transfer of my computer to the living room is a good idea. Here is my proposal.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v80/Carskick/list.gif)
This is the buying list. I wanted to check with you guys to see if I have everything I need. I have my Antec Case and PSU, Hard drive, and Operating system. I am buying for my new computer the motherboard, RAM, video card, DVD drive, and CPU. Am I forgeting anything?
My current computer will move to the living room except for it's CD-ROM, 56k modem, and 2nd hard drive. The wireless card and the mouse keyboard are for this computer.
I am going to put the new 80mm fan in the rear of th HP, and the one from the HP in the front of the new computer.
Does all this sound okay? Are all the cables I need included? I think I will skip the floppy for now. Bad idea? I can always borrow if desperately needed. I may throw in a $10 floppy at the last minute just to have. If anything is questionable, please let me know. I plan on making the purchase in the next few weeks.
Cars,
Looks good. I don't remember if your HDD is sata or IDE but I have become a fan of round cables. They are not as easy to bend but overall I think they make for a neater installation. and improved air flow. If the HDD is sata then a round cable for the DVD will eliminate the last ribbon. Yes, I know the whole subject is very debatable; just my preference.
Bill
Bill, my hard drive is IDE, but I think I'll stick with ribbon cables for now. They're included anyways, and I'll try to tuck them away somehow. If they become too much of an interference, I will switch them out after the fact, but for now I'll stick with the ribbons. Thanks for the advice though.
Hi Cars,
Nice components, should be a great build.
As to the case (from other poast).
Most likely you will have to change the back I/O panel, it pries out easily and the new one will snap right in. What I do is to align the motherboard up and see where the stand offs are needed. Then insert them, I didn?t use the center one with just the pin without a screw, I replaced it with a normal stand off. Then sort out the bag of screws, only one size of the screws will go into the stand offs easily, those are the ones you want. If you have a full size board like the one I had you just have to lay it in at an angle until you get past the fan and slide it into the back I/O panel, then just tighten down the screws, not too tight though, just snug.
Good luck with it, will be looking forward to some pictures.
Thanks for all of the info, Pat. I read the info on the PSU from your other poast as well. Good to know. I hope to get this thing ordered soon. I'm sick of seeing my new Antec case/PSU sit there collecting dust.
You are welcome. :)
Quote from: Carskick on June 28, 2005, 19:07 hrs
Bill, my hard drive is IDE, but I think I'll stick with ribbon cables for now. They're included anyways, and I'll try to tuck them away somehow. If they become too much of an interference, I will switch them out after the fact, but for now I'll stick with the ribbons. Thanks for the advice though.
I now simply fold mine in a "w" from one end to the other and place pull ties around them. That also allows bending them in more drastic angles than with the flattened cables.
Whizbang, I think I know what you mean. I'll experiment and see how they best shrink. I was also thinking I could twist them, and maybe they would become round.
Twisting might cause separation of strands, After folding a cable and pull-tying it, you can also velcro it to the bottom of the case and then bend it at a virtual 90-degree angle up to the drive/drives. That gives a much cleaner look. You also can use colored electrical tape instead of the pull ties. That gives a more sleek appearance. I have gone both routes, but I experiment with so much that I still have a lot of wiring.
Thanks for the ideas. I guess it'll primarily depend on how long the cables are.
Quote from: Carskick on June 28, 2005, 22:47 hrs
Whizbang, I think I know what you mean. I'll experiment and see how they best shrink. I was also thinking I could twist them, and maybe they would become round.
thats what i do with my floppy cable, its very flexible, and after wrapping in insulating tape (you can use sellotape but it doesnt look as good) there is no stress on the cable and the strands will not seperate
Cars, I used to prefer round cables, now I prefer sticking with the ribbon. If you go back to the photos of the system I built for my daughter, you'll see that the ribbon allowed for a very clean layout that I could not have achieved with rounded cables. (Click here to see photos (http://www.poasters.com/forum/index.php?board=29;action=display;threadid=12087))
I also threw out the rounded cables from my main system, and used the same "W" method suggested by Whizbang. The result was a cleaner system.
I went and looked back at those pics, scuzzy, and I think you are right. Very clean. I'll try and duplicate something to that nature on my build.
Sadly, mom doesn't understand why I need a new computer after only having my HP 2 years. I tried explaining to her the idea of having the computer in the living room and how recording took time out of my computing, but she's not convinced. Dad thinks it's a great idea. I think it's rediculous that I have to convince her to let me give her something for free and buy myself something. I'll win her over though. Somehow...
I think she's intimidated by the fact that there will be a computer in the living room. She has enough trouble working the system as it is.
Mama's never do understand. After a lot of pros and cons on the subject for many years, I have realized that a computer can be the best psycho-therapy around if applied in a morally constrained environment, which is to say for decent and educational purposes. It is also about the cheapest way to make contacts, purchase products, and just chill out, as well as learn to be more technically proficient in unlimited areas, including typing (Mavis Beacon).
Regarding the modding of the cables, the beauty of keeping the ribbons is that you can also add expanding flourescent sleeves later and simply hold them in place with pull ties or colored electrical tape. I purchased a big container of pull ties from Wal-Mart for about $6.00. All the colors you would ever want are in the package, and in great number. I also found that longer ribbons are easier to route and keep out of sight. Every time you get a new mainboard, you get more ribbon cables. You also can get them on Ebay in great quantities for peanuts. That allows for a lot of classy and cheap experimentation.
3M has packs of 5 colors of vinyl tape, and Kmart and Wal-Mart sell them.
Luckily, our garage is ful of things such as tie-wraps and electrical tape, so I won't need to buy any of that stuff. The only thing I'll need like that may be thermal greese if I decide to use it over the included pad. Is it worth it? The athlon 64 has that head disipater anyways, so shouldn't the pad be fine?
Cars,
I can only speak from one experience but I used the stock pad and fan that came with my A64 3000 and temps are fine.
Bill
Probably the only time you would need the grease is if you remove the heatsink and displace the pad or damage it. I know there are purists who say that the pad is not good, but AMD took great care to include it with the CPU to insure that the CPU would not "flame" out. I have never removed the new pad, only a used one once it is deformed. I also have seen no measurable difference between stock grease on the older CPUs and Arctic Silver, but I always go with Arctic Silver anyway. :-\
Okay, well I've made a deal wth Mother, and I will be ordering my new computer parts sometime next week.
I have a question about putting in the ribbons still. How do you hold them down? Electrical tape? Thanks.
Edit: Also, I am considering getting a cheap AGP card for my current PC, soon to be HTPC, and put the FX5600 Ultra in our other computer to replace it's PCI MX420. What is the best choice for a cheap HTPC video card? I found FX5200s for less than $40 on newegg. Another choice is the Radeon 9550, which costs $55 for a 128 bit model. I don't think the extra power of the Radeon 9550 is really needed, but if we ever want to use if for gaming... What do you think would be the best card for the price in this category?
Quote from: Carskick on July 23, 2005, 16:57 hrs
Okay, well I've made a deal wth Mother, and I will be ordering my new computer parts sometime next week.
I have a question about putting in the ribbons still. How do you hold them down? Electrical tape? Thanks.
I assume you are refering to IDE modified flat ribbons. I use ones that are long enough so that I can place them out of the way and out of air flow. I put a velcro pad on the case where I want to anchor the cable and attach the "W" folded IDE cable with the crowsfeet tape to that point. Discount stores have rolls of velcro that fill the bill. When I first started putting computers together, I would always use the shortest cables that I could. I have since learned that proper routing requires longer cables to clean up the appearance and help prevent dislodging things from mainboard.
Okay, sounds good. I hope the cable that come with my mobo are long enough. I also think we have some velcro pads in the garage.
For my daughter's system, I used double-sided tape to keep the ribbons in place. It's nice, simple, and keeps a tidy-looking system.
Sounds good, but will standard double-sided tape loose its stick due to heat?
Any pressure sensitive tape will deteriorate with age, but there is little pressure put on the tape by the cable.
As noted by Whizbang, little pressure will be exerted on the tape. The thing to consider will be the coating on the ribbon cable. If it's waxy, then my idea may not work well.
Try a piece of double-sided tape on the ribbon first, to see how well it sticks. You might also try carpet tape, since it's wider and may have more holding power.
Okay, sounds good. I will be able to order my parts this week. My list hasn't changed much from the last poasted. The only difference is that I am getting a different brand 6600GT.
Quote from: Carskick on July 24, 2005, 15:19 hrs
Okay, sounds good. I will be able to order my parts this week. My list hasn't changed much from the last poasted. The only difference is that I am getting a different brand 6600GT.
what brand of 6600gt are you getting?
I bought a msi 6600gt with vivo from newegg,
but had to return it for a replacement because the card came disattached from the heat sink...
so if it comes back in working condition then it wil be a good buy, if it doesnt then i might try and get another brand.
I am getting the Gigabyte AGP 6600GT for several reasons. One, it's a reasonably priced 1Ghz memory version of the card, and it got very good ratings for stablity, overclockability, etc. It's pimary down side is that it doesn't include any games I'd really want. Then again, most of the 6600GTs don't.
I was thinking again tonight, and I was wondering how well the Corsair valueram will respond to a minor overclock? But to get RAM rated at higher than 400Mhz costs a lot more. So I began browsing, and saw a 512 stick of OCZ Premier series with a heatspreader. (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820146846) If I got two, the price would total about $95. Do you think two of these would perform better in my new system? And would they be more likely to withstand a small overclock? At least they're prettier, and OCZ is a great brand. What do you all think? Thanks.
Edit: I also just read that overclocking doesn't void the warranty on the OCZ, as long as you don't up the voltage. Sounds good to me. ;)
Here's a closeup of the ribbon cable layout for my daughter's computer. To keep the ribbon in place, I used double-sided carpet tape (indoor/outdoor) that I purchased at Wal-Mart. It's the "Duck" brand tape, and goes for about $3 or $4 a roll. It's a pain to work with, but it works well.
Click the photo for the full picture:
(http://www.poasters.com/pix/ide2.jpg) (http://www.poasters.com/pix/ide1.jpg)
Wow, that looks really great Scuzzy! It gave me some great ideas for mine. Thanks. Just hope the IDEs they give me are long enough. ;)
Also, if anybody knows anything about that RAM, let me know ASAP. I think I am going to get it, as it has better timings than the value corsair, will likely be more stable with the heat spreaders. Let me know. I will be ordering between today and wednesday most likely. Thanks!
Dang!
Check this memory out!
http://anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2392&p=8
Anand says it is the old VX series in value packaging, and they were able to get it up 490Mhz at 2-2-2-6 timings! The catch is you have to significantly up the voltage. Now I doubt I'd ever go that high, but I may up the voltage a little to improve the timings and get a small overclock. I don't trust major overclocks for long term reliability, although most have relatively few problems for years. Of course the overclocking process will be done very slowly, and not immediately. As long as I am careful, the worse that should happen is that I have to push the settings back. And if I get to the edge, I go way back. If I end up getting two random sticks like Anand got, I'll be in business, starting with only minor uppings once I get the system broken in.
Even if I only do timing overclocks, the charts say that gives a very significant boost over RAMs that cost very similarily. I am very excited, and will hopefully get this all ordered tonight. Since this is my first true build, I will take it very slowly to make sure it is done right the first time. I will take pictures of it along the way to share with you guys.
Edit: I was reading my mobo manual online, and disovered my max mem voltage is 2.8v, so I cannot achieve what anandtech did. This is probably for the best, as 2.8v on this memory should not be even close to causing problems. I'll just have to see what kind of timings or overclock I can get at 2.8v. I thought an Epox board would have higher settings, but I'm not concerned, as this was just meant to be a small overclock, and only editing the timings may be the safest way to speed up the system. It works very well, as anand demonstrates.
OCZ has been getting great reviews for a while now. They are kinda like the second tier motherboard companies such as biostar they seem to churn out great products that are barely noticed because big boys (eg. corsair) have alot more advertising presence. I personally own the valu-ram that corsair makes and have it oc'd to about 449mhz stable but then again you never know with these things.
Wow, that's awesome. I hadn't heard it could do things like that. As you saw earlier, maybe at least, I was going to go with the corsair value ram. It may still be a good possiblity. But for $15 extra, I get the RAM Anand got to 490Mhz at 2-2-2-6, mind you at 3.5v, so I'll never achieve that, and never plan to. However, the mobo I am getting will go to 2.8v, so it may give me some play room. I wonder whether it is better to get the timings down or the Mhz up? timings down may put less stress on the system. However, there are no bragging rights to that. If I say I got my system from 1.8Ghz to 2.4Ghz, people know what I'm talking about. If I say I overclocked my system by getting my memory down to 2-2-2-6, most will be confused. But that isn't most important. Most important is performance to wear ratio. I don't want to put too much extra strain on the system, but I do want optimal performance. I'm sorry, I think I'm rambling again. Thinking out loud. But timings vs Mhz is still a question that burns in my brain.
Optimal timings are good although overclocking your ram 25mhz should create a better situation. I am currently running cas 2.5 with no issues at the speed i have so you shouldnt have to sacrifice to much with the timings.
Yeah, I just hope I can get it enough juice to keep the timings and overclock a little. Since Anand was able to give it so much voltage, he could do both, and the ram was astonishing stable to high overclocks.
Edit: BTW, definitely ordering tonight.
Okay, my first build has been ordered. Here's the lineup
MB|EPOX EP-9NDA3J nForce3 ULTRA RT - Retail (Qty=1,Price=$87.99)
VGA GIGABYTE GV-N66T128D 6600GT RT - Retail (Qty=1,Price=$160.00)
CPU AMD 64 |3000+ ATHLON 64 939P RT - Retail (Qty=1,Price=$146.00)
DDRAM 512MB 512X1|OCZ PC3200 400Mhz - Retail (Qty=2,Price=$94.00)
KB&MS LOGITECH|CRDLS INTERNET PRO% - OEM (Qty=1,Price=$24.95)
NEC 16X DVDRW ND-3540A BK W/O SW% - OEM (Qty=1,Price=$41.99)
WIRELESS PCI LINKSYS|WMP11 RETAIL - Retail (Qty=1,Price=$39.99)
SKYPE SERVICE STARTER PACK|SP-30 -R - Retail (Qty=1,Price=$0.00)
Extended Warranty Fee: $0.00
Subtotal: $594.92
TAX: $0.00
Shipping and Handling Charge**: $22.14
Total: $617.06
Pretty good I think. Already have Hard Drive, Case, and PSU, so I should be all set. The wireless keyboard and mouse as well as the wireless card are all for the living room, which my current HP will be used for. I will let you all know either how great it turns out, or come here seeking assistance.
Cars,
Looks like it should be great.
Good luck with your first.
Bill
well done carskick :)
Thank you. I'm just rocking back and forth waiting for the parts to arive. ;D
Quote from: Carskick on July 28, 2005, 22:26 hrs
Thank you. I'm just rocking back and forth waiting for the parts to arive. ;D
isnt that the worst torture ever? every time I wait for a new part, it seems like i have not much to do that couple of days and i end up runnning outside
at the first sound of a big engine coming down the street.
me too! ;D :-[