toshiba cpu upgrade

oz funghi · September 20, 2002, 04:47 hrs

Hello,
i've been searching the web for ages now, but no-one has been able to help me.
i've got a toshiba portege 7140, p3 500mhz. i would like to upgrade it, although toshiba says the cpu is soldered (standard 'no' answer). yet other sites such as http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/reviews/article/1371.5/ says it propably isn't, and, i've allready bought an other cpu (p3 650), comming out of a different toshiba, and it shows no sign of soldering what so ever. So:
in the same model line as mine, there is a portege 7220 with a p3 650mhz. so i think it's a safe bet, cuz it's also a very thin laptop, not to go higher. So i got a p3 650 off ebay for 70$, comming out of a different toshiba line, but also (just as my current processor) ?pga2, 100mhz fsb, 256 l2 cache, ... i also read the toms' hardware article a while ago. What do you guys think; please let me know something, people keep turning their backs when i ask about cpu upgrade. Or would toshiba really make a different mobo for each number of the same productline, although they are visually the same laptop and even share some drivers and i even think a bios?

oz funghi · September 20, 2002, 04:54 hrs

so:
my current = p3 500
bought a p3 650 out of different modelline (same specs)
in my modelline their exists a model with a p3 650 (same specs, yet other graphix card)
toshiba says: naughty no-no;
yet other cpu = no soldering

query · September 20, 2002, 09:00 hrs

Chances are the Portege uses a ball-grid array processor and that it is soldered onto the mainboard, meaning it is not replaceable. It is likely that only a look inside will tell you for sure - but most of the ultra-light notebooks use soldered CPUs in that format, and are not upgradeable short of replacing the entire system board.

oz funghi · September 20, 2002, 09:15 hrs

what's ball grid array mean?
And if it were soldered, would it mean it were really impossible? A local chineze computer guy says he thinks he can do it, and i've got a friend working at imec, flanders technology center, who says they have all sorts of equipment that could pull it off. wouldn't it even be possible in that case?

"that could pull it off" not to be taken tooo literally!

it's BGA2 right?

John · September 20, 2002, 14:46 hrs

oz funghi, welcome to Poasters Forums. I have to agree with Query on this. The only way to know for sure is to open it up and look. If you have people who say they can do if and you have the money necessary and you want it, do it. I personally can't see a big increase in performance over what you have now and probably would leave it alone.

As for BGA or Ball Grid Array you can take a look at this link for an explanation: Susqu.edu or this from Amkor.com

The reason I gave you the links for the subjet of BGA is it's a long discussion. By the way you will need Adobe Acrobat Reader to open and read the link from Amkor.

query · September 20, 2002, 16:45 hrs

BGA processors are not socketed - they are hard-soldered onto the mainboard in the system. The design is used because it provides for a very compact package vertically and therefore a slim notebook design.

Once the BGA processor is soldered onto the board, there's no way to replace it - there are far too many pins to unsolder and resolder - remember that the initial soldering job is done by an SMT jig (surface mount machine) - no human being, no matter how skilled, will be able to desolder and replace the CPU.

MMC and PGA processors are socketed and replaceable - BGA processors and PLCC processors are not.

oz funghi · September 20, 2002, 21:31 hrs

thanks,
but as for the performance increase, i read of a gain of 15-20 %.
i was also gonna upgrade my ram from 192 to 320.
And the guy i spoke of says they have machinery for stuff like that. so, i'll just see what he has to say. I can always resell the thing in case it doesn't seem to fit.
i'll let you guys know when/if i hit the red button, or not (and if it is bga or not) . anyways i have to wait till wednesday, because toshiba is replacing my systemboard under warranty (even though the laptop was 2.5 years old when i bought it second hand!) because of a graphix problem. they already gave me a new screen, but that didn't help, so... :)

oz funghi · September 25, 2002, 06:03 hrs

great news for those who wish to upgrade their mobile cpu's.
i just got back from my toshiba center where they were going to place a new systemboard under warranty. Now i played dumb and it worked. i was asking, "wow, so now you have to replace all the chips on those boards and switch 'm" and the guy said, "no, actually all the chips are already placed on the new board including the cpu" at this point i thought 'darn, it's gonna be soldered (bga2)'. so i said, "well i heard the cpu of a laptop is way smaller than a regular cpu; so he started unpacking the new sysboard to show it to me. now there was a heatsink right above the cpu so i couldn't really see if it were soldered or not. so i said: "ah, so it's soldered to the sysboard like a ball grid array" and the dude said: " no no no no no; toshiba and ibm never do that, i can assure you; maybe the cheaper models do that but ibm and toshiba certainly don't!." so i could take a closer look at it and it was the exact same socket as the mobile cpu i just bought (see above)! so even the slimmest laptops from toshiba are socketed!!! not soldered!
hurray hurray!!!

oz funghi · September 25, 2002, 09:10 hrs

do i need to add that i'm gonna go for it? ;D 8)

Kolya62 · September 25, 2002, 12:52 hrs

oh, man, you're a real good news herald! that's why i overlooked cpu, cuz at that time i knew nothing about heatsinks! and surely it never occured to me that cpu could be hidden under it! intuitively i knew that cpu should be on the lower part of the mobo, cuz the bottom of my machine gets hot the most. jee, now definitely i'm gonna try it! the question is-which processor i can use? current cpu is FSB-60, p1 150mhz mmx. maybe i can go as far as 233mhz, cuz mmx FSB-64 go up to 233 mhz? what about FSB? which processors do i use - FSB-64, or FSB-100? if i can use FSB-100 i could use faster processors, right?

Kolya62 · September 25, 2002, 12:55 hrs

hey, what about heat dissipation issues? how do i deal with heat if i upgrade cpu in laptop? not many options, i s'pose.

oz funghi · September 25, 2002, 16:42 hrs

well the jump from 500 to 650 isn't th?t huge, and i've got a portege 7140, which is apart from the cpu and graphix card, the exact same laptop as the 7220. So of the 7220 (650 mhz) can handle the heat, i suppose the 7140 can as well. (besides my fan isn't running full power all the time so i guess there's a margin)
and check out intel's compatibility charts for what might work. or ask one of the guys here. besides, what did you think before when you didn't see your cpu? that you didn't have one? :)

Kolya62 · September 25, 2002, 18:50 hrs

actually, there're 2 cpu-looking things on top of the mobo. so, i thought that 1 of them is processor and another is co-processor. if there are not, what are they? they look exactly as cpu only w/o any specs on them. and they are soldered. sisoft sandra says the same thing. but after your post i will check it out. maybe it's something like northbridge. i'm not sure if a laptop has such a thing, though.

oz funghi · September 26, 2002, 01:24 hrs

i think i know what you're talking about, two square chipsets, one bigger than the other? on the 'up' side of the mobo? (i guess one of 'm 's the graphic adapter, but i'm not sure here? well, i didn't see anything else that could be it, but then again, my attention was focussed on the cpu :) )

oz funghi · October 21, 2002, 08:46 hrs

for the toshiba port?g? users: NEVERMIND WHAT I SAID BEFORE! i opened up my port?g?, removed the heatsink, and what did i find? a soldered cpu; so obviously the guy i spoke to was a) full of shit, or b) never worked on a port?g? before.
so it's NOT POSSIBLE for the port?g? models.
i do believe it is possible for the satelites.
>:( :-[ >:( :(

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toshiba cpu upgrade