Re:

[John]

Scuzzy,  I am thinking of building a new System also so I decided to price the parts you layed out. Here is the list.



CASE: ATX  (depending on style and type)????????????   .$59-$229



CPU:     AMD Athlon  1.5 gig 266 FSB ??????????????.$120-$164



MOTHERBORD:  ASUS  A7V266 VIA KT266 Chipset  DDR up to 2Gig $159-$170



MOTHERBORD:   EPOX  EP-8KHA DDR ????????????$109-$189



RAM:                       Crucial (what else would you use)????????.$ 36--$40  



POWER SUPPLY   PC POWER AND COOLING 400WAT  Silecner?.$179.00



SOUND CARD:       TURTLE BEACH SANTA CRUZ???????.$74.00



HARD DRIVE:        MAXTOR DIAMOND MAX 40 7200 ATA/100??$120.00



                                    MAXTOR DIAMOND MAX 60 7200 ATA/100?...$169.00



DVD:                          TOSHIBA 16X DVD/48XCDROM??????...$61.00



CD/RW                       YAMAH    2200EZ 20X10X40????????.$200-229



VIDEO CARD           ATI   RAEDON  32MB DDR?????????$130.00

                                                                  64MB DDR?????????$189.00



NETWORK                3COM   10/100 ETHERNET XL  PCI  RJ45???$40.00

CARD      



While searching for parts I used my past experience and chose mostly web shops for parts. I also used shopping bots  www.pricewatch.com and www.pricegrabber.com as well as web store www.axiontech.com . I also chose to select the 400watt Silencer ATX power supply from www.pcpowercooling.com As for the System case I left that open by selecting prices for low and high priced case both Mid and Full tower including Aluminum cases. I also did not select a hheat sink and fan as well as case fans. To sum it up the prices come out like this. Low side Price $1287.00  High side price $1853.00  Also this does not include the price of the Operating system and any other software. Something to think about huh!



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John

[pat]

Scuzzy,

Great idea! We could all quit our jobs and build computers and use the forum for tech support.

Well perhaps we should hold on to our day jobs.

Seriously though, I have been thinking about this very thing lately. Instead of just building one and hoping I can sell it, I have been sowing seeds so to speak. I have a couple of my regular clients, who for one reason or another are not satisfied with the way computers are sold and would like a custom built computer. I?m considering putting systems together for them. I?ve really enjoyed talking to them about what they want, and steering them towards products that fit their needs. It would be great to sit around and build screamers, but not everyone can afford or needs that type of system. With all the options these days, it?s not hard to find quality components at all price points. Like you, I?m not so concerned with getting paid as for just the time spent doing the building.  It looks like my sister is going to be first. In her case all she wants is a basic for the business type computer.  Now me I want all the bells and whistles. As far as I?m concerned I see no compelling reason to consider Intel.

I like those http://www.antec-inc.com/ cases.

There are good motherboard reviews at http://www.amdzone.com/#2 I like that soyo dragon but would not rule out asus or msi.

As far as the rest It just depends, the sky is the limit.



 I?m starting to ramble so, best of luck with your project,

Pat



Do it right, Do it wrong,

Do something.









Edited by - patman on Sep 22 2001  09:19:00 AM

[n/a]

Well, I'm doing something. Whether it's right or wrong time will tell.



I asked a seller a question on eBay, and when his system didn't sell (the description was scant and the Buy It Now price was way too high), he offered it to me. One thing lead to another until I couldn't refuse. Here's the system:



*1.2 Ghz T-bird

*Asus A7V133 (266FSB with PC133 SDRAM but no DDR support, jumperless overclocking through the BIOS, solid at 150Mhz bus speed)

*30 gig WD 7200rpm hdd

*64 meg PC133 RAM (hello Crucial)

*Asus geForce 2mx 32 meg twinview video w\tv out

*16x generic DVD drive

*generic floppy disk drive

*Soundblaster Live 5.1 mp3+

*Hauppauge wintv video capture/playback with tv out

*10/100 ethernet card

*4 5.5" drive bay (3 open) midtower case (pic looks like an Enright) with a total of three fans but a lousy power supply I'll have to upgrade)

*all CDs and manuals with Win98se and video, sound drivers installed (I'll  reformat and partition after I verify driver versions are current and familiarize myself a little)

*keyboard and mouse (I'll use my current ones, didn't even ask about them)



Other throw-ins:

*MS Sidewinder gamepad

*usb webcam

*external 56k modem (intend to transfer my current U.S. Robotics modem from this one)



The system was built 4 months ago from retail parts for personal use, but the guy bought a notebook for school and needs the room, so he's selling it to me for $400, and he pays the shipping.



Not the most high-end system available, but it was either go with something I can afford now or wait till next summer, so naturally impatience won out. Cheap enough for me to learn from by upgrading so I'll feel more comfortable building the next one myself. I'll upgrade the RAM and PS, then add a decent CD-RW. Should be getting it in a week or so.





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[pat]

Hey bear,

Congrates, you even got him to throw in shipping.

You must be a heck of a poker player



Pat





 

[Joanie]

Hi Ya Bear,



What a deal!! Let's hope it works and gives you lots of service and brings you hours of play time and tweaking.



Love,



Joanie



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[darksilence]

1.4GHz AMD Athlon (maybe PIII 1GHz)

256MB RAM (Crucial, of course)

ATX case and power supply? Who knows? PC Power and Cooling?

Motherboard - Asus? Abit? Epox? (I don't want any ISA slots)

Either a DVD-ROM, or a Kenwood True 72x CD-ROM

Yamaha CD-R/W 2200EZ (20x10x40x)

Maxtor HDD 40GB to 60GB

ATI Radeon 32 DDR or 64DDR

Turtle Beach Santa Cruz sound card

10/100 Network card

No Modem

Probably Windows XP Home



Well Scuzzy,

The configuration you have there seems alright. It depends how long you want this computer to stay in the 'it's still good' level. I wouldn't choose Intel since their prices and performance aren't that great compared to AMD.

  The 1.4Ghz Althon is a good processor reading its performance tests. Or you could wait for the release of the 1.5Althon (supposed to be even better).

  Of course you want 256+ of DDR RAM (DDR RAM will become the standrad as it is cheaper and performs genreally better than RAMBUS)

  As for motherboards, here is a list of ones I have considered:

1. ASUS A7V266 (i believe this is coming out soon)

2. Abit KG7-RAID

3. Gigabyte 7VTX

       ... all these mobos can support a lot of RAM (they all use DDR RAM)

 

  You'd might as well watch DVD on your TV, so i suggest the 72x CD-ROM

  The ATI Radeon 64DDR RAM has some nice things to it. (If you do choose to get the DVD-ROM, the 64DDR RAM card wuld be a good choice. Otherwise 32DDR RAM will be ok ... for now. Who knows what other fancy stuff companies will come out with)

  60GB is a very safe spot to be in.

  Windows XP is very controversial in its privacy and anti-piracy 'improvements'. Windows 2000 or ME should be juse fine.



I hope this helps.

Good luck!





 

[scuzzy]

Well, here's how far I've come:



MoBo: Epox EP-8K7A+ or EP-8KHA+ (VIA's KT266 chipset, due out this week)

CPU: AMD Athlon 1.4GHz, 266FSB

RAM: Crucial PC2100, 256MB x 2

Graphics: ATI Radeon 7500, AGP4x, 64MB DDR (direct support for flat panel)

Sound: Turtle Beach Santa Cruz

HDD: Seagate Barracuda ATA IV, 60GB, 7200rpm, Ultra ATA/100

DVD: Acer 16x

CD-R/W: Yamaha 2200EZ (20x10x40x)

Case: I like the Antec cases pointed out by Patman - NICE!

Power Supply: PC Power and Cooling, High-Performance Turbo-Cool 350 ATX



I have pretty much decided not to sell whatever I build, so I'll resuse a couple things out of my Dell, such as the 3Com 10/100, Acer DVD and Yamaha CD-R/W (that'll save about $350). I'll then place the old CD-ROM and CD-R/W back into the Dell, and pass it on to the kids for their school work. So, I estimate that it will cost about $1,100 to put together my dream system, plus the cost of a monitor.



As a matter of fact, I just need to decide what to get for a monitor. I not sure at this point whether to buy the defacto CRT, or move to a flat panel. I will have about $500 available for a monitor, so I should have plenty of options.



Nothing is in stone yet, so I'm still open to suggestions. However, I will probably begin buying the components within the next week. Any ideas for vendors are also welcomed. I still have to consider cooling the unit, along with the small stuff, such as a 3.5" floppy drive. As for the OS, it probably will be Win2k or WinXP.



By the way, I do appreciate the ideas submitted.



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Alex Garcia

[John]

Scuzzy, I use several online stores. You already know about Directron. They have a lot of good stuff hard and to find items as well. They also ship on time. Axiontech Great store. Have a very diverse shopping category. They ship on time and have a support center. I have used them a lot. For cooling needs try  1coolpc Great site for cooling and cables. I don't know how you are about noise but that 350 turbo cool from PCPowerCooling will make a lot of it. The 400watt ATX silencer is available for about $70 more. Anyway that's my suggestion along with a list of places for computer components.















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John

[scuzzy]

John,



I appreciate the tips. As for noise, I don't mind a little, but not too much more than that. I'd rather not spend the extra $70, but maybe it will be wisely spent on a quieter power supply.



I will take a look at those stores to see what works best for me. I will begin making the purchases as soon as I can come up with sufficient time. At the moment, it's difficult to break away from work and school.



Thanks for helping me out.



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Alex Garcia

[John]

Scuzzy just to let you know I have both power supplies. The 350 turbo cool, and the 400 silencer and the noise is appreciable. Especially in tight quarters.



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John

[scuzzy]

John,



Thanks again, you've talked me into it. Besides, the extra 50 watts is nice.



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Alex Garcia

[BlueIce]

Scuzzy the TBird 1.4 runs hotter than other T birds if you go that route I suggest a monster cooler I would get a 400+ power supply just because



I would go With the abit or asus always had good luck with them

If in a pinch for money Fic Boards are ok too



I think Raid is overrated alot of people think they get a tremendous boost of speed from it but i havent been proven it yet Raid wasnt ment for speed with a single drive config and i dont wanna use 2 drives to get a little more speed



If some body can explain the speed increase with one drive config and how they set it up I would consider it



Outside of that I think you got a good start on a system





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[pat]

Don't you need more than one drive in order to use raid

Or is that raid just for buggy software

http://www.dvformat.com/2001/07_jul/features/raid_on_eide.htm



 

[scuzzy]

Yep, I'd have to have a pair of identical drives for the RAID. Initially, I probably won't use RAID, so I only need one HDD. It's possible that I'll order the MoBo without RAID, but I'll leave that option open for now.



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Alex Garcia

[K. Roberts]

One thing nice about a raid board is you have two more IDE channels if you need them even if you don't use the raid.



Keith



 

[Neon]

Agree with what Keith said. With a 2 HD configuration, RAID gets you more speed by striping data across the 2 HDs. In one HD configuration, that obviously isn't possible. However, you can connect each of up to 4 devices on it's own IDE channel. In my case, this indirectly should get me more speed. Here's how - because my tape drive is not DMA mode enabled (Direct Memory Access is faster than standard PIO mode), the IDE channel it is located on cannot be DMA enabled, and my CD-ROM is not using DMA mode, even though the drive is capable of it. If I had a RAID board, the tape drive would gets it's own PIO mode channel, and the CD-ROM would get it's own DMA mode enabled channel. Thus, more speed.



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[scuzzy]

Both Keith and Neon made some excellent points. Thanks! I will certainly lean toward the RAID controllers. I'm waiting for Epox to release the 8KHA Plus, which should be due out about now.



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Alex Garcia

[scuzzy]

It's hard to find the time to even look at my watch (to see what time it is), but I'm making some progress on building my computer. Today, I bought the ATI Radeon 7500, 64MB DDR video card for a grand total of $190.79.



Tomorrow, I plan on ordering the "Neon" computer case (mid-tower) from Color Case, for $99 plus S/H. The case includes a temperature sensor with an LCD readout, front USB connections, and 2 variable speed fans. I don't plan on getting the power supply from them, though. I will order the power supply from PC Power and Cooling. I will buy the 400watt Silencer model as suggested by John.



I also plan on buying an IBM 40GB, 7200 rpm hard drive (about $130), an AMD Athlon 1.4GHz (about $110, and an Epox EP-8KHA+ (once it's available), price unknown at this time.



I'm guessing that it will probably be a couple weeks before I have eveything I need.



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Alex Garcia

[Neon]

Go Scuzzy!



That setup looks very similar to what I want to get, so I'll be watching with great interest. In fact, I was just looking for the Epox 8KHA+, and it is for sale  at newegg.com ($116 + $10 S/H) and axiontech.com ($117 + $11 S/H), but it's not available yet.



I haven't started looking at cases yet. What did you look for when selecting a case? Personally, I'm just looking for one that says neon on it.



Also, be careful about IBM HDs. Some batches of the recent 60 GXP and 75 GXP models have experienced high failure rates. See the Slashdot article with over 600 comments and the SysOpt forum for more info.

In fact, IBM has removed the 75GXP line from the market, although that could be because it is an older product. It would certainly seem to be unreliable. StorageReview.com currently highly rates both the Western Digital Caviar BB series and the IBM Deskstar 60GXP series (oddly enough).



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[scuzzy]

Neon,



Deciding on what case to buy is difficult. I looked for reviews, and found plenty. However, there are so many things to consider, and so many case options out there, that making a good decision is almost dumb luck. For example, is the case available without a power supply? How much room is there to work in the case? How about ventilation? Does it have drive rails? How about USB up front? Is the power button right next to the floppy eject button? How many fans can it take, and does it come with any? How noisy is it? Is it difficult to install/remove the motherboard? Does it have to be so dang ugly? Does it have cut-outs for the MoBo connectors, or replacable plates? How hard is it to get into the case? Is the case made from sheet metal? Plastic? Aluminum? The list goes on.



Anyway, I tried to buy the Neon case yesterday, just to find out that they're out of stock. So, I'm considering a Blue Stainless (mid-tower) model from Color Cases (not to be confused with Color Case).



I also called AxionTech, and they told me they might have the Epox 8KHA+ available on Oct 15th. Which brings up another point - there are some slightly tall capicitors on the motherboard that sometimes interferes with CD-ROM installations on some cases. Several reviewers complained about that problem, so I have to take that into consideration.



Thanks also for the heads-up on IBM hard drives. I did read one report (I wish I could remember where) in which IBM and Western Digital share technology, and possibly assembly lines. According to that report, some IBM and Western Digital hard drives look the same, have the same specs, and perform amazingly similar in testing.



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Alex Garcia

[Neon]

Scuzzy,



So many considerations just for a simple computer case! I have a whole lotta thinkin to do about that.



Also, I should amend the previous statement on IBM drives. I believe that most of the concerns were with the discontinued 75GXP line, and the 60GXP line may indeed be perfectly fine. Several years ago, IBM and WD did agree to get together and share technology. WD drives have gotten noticably better; IBM drives have largely maintained their high status, except for the 75GXP.



Did you decide on a monitor yet?



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[scuzzy]

I'm still looking into the IBM hard drive thingy, but I ordered my case in the meantime. I found what I wanted (at least I think I want it) from Color Case. I ordered the mid-tower Neon case for $99, plus about $14 for shipping. Hopefully, I'll see it sometime next week.



Today, I'll try to find the time to order the Enermax EG365P-VE-FC power supply. I decided on the FC (Fan Control) model which has temperature controlled fans. It adds about $10 to the price, but I figure it might be worth it.



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Alex Garcia

[scuzzy]

Neon,



I just realized that I didn't answer your question about the monitor. The answer is: I'm not sure. I'm not certain that I want a flat panel just yet. At least not until they are more competitive with a CRT or aperture grill monitor.



On another note - does anyone have any experience buying from DirtCheapDrives.com?



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Alex Garcia

[John]

Scuzzy, what hard drive are you looking to buy. As for me the last hard drive I purchased was a 40gig Quantum Fireball Plus AS. It has advanced platter technology. Great drive so far. So do most top tier brands now. Matter of fact my second choice was a Maxtor hard drive. As of a few months ago Quantum sold their PC drive divison to Maxtor. I checked at Reseller Ratings and read some of the evals. Some were pure horror stories. One buyer stated that DirtCheapDrives is owned by Megahause. Don't know if that makes any difference or not. Let me know what drive you are looking for and I will help find a low price and stable retailer. Hopefully. Either way if it were me not having used them before and not having anyone else say yae or nay, I'd probably not use them. That's my own personal opinion. It should not reflect on DCD as they may be a great place to shop. Just an opinion.



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John

[scuzzy]

John,



Actually, I wasn't looking for a hard drive. I noticed that Dirt Cheap Drives sells the Pioneer DVD-116 (tray) for $65, and TEAC F14 floppy drives for $16, both of which are on my wish list.



As for a hard drive, I just might stop by Best Buy tonight and pick up a Western Digital 40GB, 7200rpm Caviar. I'd rather buy a retail vs. OEM version, and Best Buy is selling them for $129. I'm sorta going back and forth between IBM and Western Digital, as I decided against the Seagate Barracuda.



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Alex Garcia

[Joanie]

Hey Kitty Kat,



For what it is worth I have had three Western Digital harddrives in my three Q's and they were each three to four years old when I sold them and I never had one problem with any of them. All three are still in operation, a 486, Pentium and Pentium II. There very reliable.



Joanie



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[scuzzy]

Thanks, Joanie. But, while I was looking around at newegg.com I went shopping crazy. I bought two IBM 7200rpm 40GB (60GXP) hard drives ($99ea), a TEAC floppy drive ($10), a Pioneer 16x DVD ($62), and Windows XP Professional OEM version ($150), for a grand total of $435.46, including shipping.



I will also be buying an AMD XP and EPOX motherboard through them as soon as they are available.



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Alex Garcia

[Joanie]

Hi kitty Kat,



Just came from the newegg site and they have the best deals I have ever seen. I will tell all my friends about them.



I couldn't believe the low cost of their Smartmedia cards. Such a deal.



You are going to have a great time putting all that together. With deals like that what do you think the total cost of your new computer will be?



Joanie



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[scuzzy]

Joanie,



I expect to come in very close to $1179, plus the cost of a monitor. That includes everything inside the box, including Windows XP Professional. As for the CPU, I have pretty much decided on the AMD XP 1600 (1.4GHz) retail box version. NewEgg will sell it for $176 + $10 S/H as soon as they have it available. The same goes for the Epox 8KHA+ motherboard for $116 + $10 as soon as it's available.



I bought the ATI Radeon 7500 at BestBuy for $190 (still unopened), but I'm taking it back tomorrow for a refund. I found the same card in the OEM version at NewEgg for only $157 including free shipping. After checking it out, the only difference is that it doesn't come in the fancy box. Heck, that saves me $33.



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Alex Garcia

[pat]

Scuzzy

You can also save a few bucks (quite a few) by buying windows XP pro oem. I'm not sure if you would want oem or not. This place has it in stock and available for shipping right now. I'm not sure what piece of hardware they ship out to qualify for oem.

Atomic Park  Located at bottom of page.

Their BizRate rating is pretty good and at face value their return policy seems good. They also offer free shipping. Check them out and see what you think.



Pat



I should add that, that's for full version if your buying an upgrade version they don't sell that oem.





Edited by - patman on Oct 11 2001  6:41:06 PM