I surrender...

[JimS]

It looks like I've lost my Quantex desktop system to my kids.  So... since my commute includes a solid hour on the bus, I'm in the market for a laptop/notebook.  I'm hoping that some of you poasters can give me some advice, to shorten my search.

My priorities include light weight, durability and battery life.  I don't play any games, and the software I use (mostly MS Office apps) don't really need a lot of horsepower.  However, I'd like to get something that I'll comfortably get 4 - 5 years out of (I know, tough to predict...)

The systems that look good so far are (not in any order) the Dell 600M, the IBM T30 or A31, the Sony Vaio GRS700 and the Toshiba Techra 9100.

Some of these can be had with different processors, ranging from P3, P3-M, P4, P4-M, Celeron and Centrino.  The Centrino sounds good as far as power management goes.  Any opinions?

OS options include XP Home, XP Pro and W2000.  I'm still using W98 on the Quantex and at work.  My wife uses XP Home, and has had no problems, but everyone I've spoken with says to get XP Pro, although they don't seem fully happy with that, either.  I've never heard anyone say anything bad about W2000; in fact, those who have it seem to like it, but I don't know much about it.  Any opinions here?

A CD-RW is a must, but some systems can offer a DVD-RW.  Is this worth the extra money?

I've had mostly good experiences with Dell.  I read in Epinions that their touch pad is horrible; I wasn't crazy about the touch pad on a Dell laptop I have at work, either, but I thought it was just me.

IBM and Toshiba sound like they have good reputations for durability.  Any opinions?

I haven't heard much about the Sony, but is sounds good, and has had some good reviews.

Thanks in advance for any advice.  I used to be so much more up on specs, but work/family/commuting/etc. doesn't leave the mental bandwidth to keep up with these things.  I'm open to suggestions on other brands, features I should/shouldn't get, software I should/shouldn't get, etc.

Thanks again.

[JimS]

JimS: Geez, Jim, no one's responded to your poast.  Ace didn't even try to kill it.  Maybe you scared them off with you're last poast.

JimS: You're right, I oughta quit preaching.  Anyway, we can help each other here, can't we?

JimS: Sure, JimS, I'll do what I can.  First, watch out for Dell's web site.  They have a sneaky way of adding surge suppressors, printers, etc. onto your order.  And they always, within a week, have a free shipping offer.

JimS: I've notice that with Dell, thanks for the reminder.  Anything else?

JimS: Some of the new Toshiba's don't have serial or parallel ports.  No big deal with the serial, but if you're still using anything parallel, like that old Zip drive you still use, you'll need to get a USB-to-parallel adapter, which I think are about $80.00 and are one more thing to carry.

JimS: Only USB ports?  Wow, maybe I oughta retire that Zip drive.  I think I have room on the shelf next to my MS-DOS 6.2 disks.

JimS: Good move.  Last, the Sony's nice, but it might be a little big for use on the bus.

JimS: Actually, that had occurred to me.  Thanks, JimS, you gave me some good advice.  I?ll keep you appraised of my search?

[bill macdonald]

Well, OK.  I'm inclined to pick brands first.
Your expected demands on the notebook are modest -no games,video editing, etc.
I personally like Dell, ask 10 notebook users, you get 10 different answers.
Take a look at the Dell Factory Outlet on their site.
All refurbs but original condition, original warranty etc. less than full boat retail.
Pick a machine that has the options you want,i.e CD-RW, lots of memory, etc., look at the specs for weight, screen size.
Why not back up a step in technology, (do you really need the latest cpu for MS office?) save some money.  A second battery is always an option.

[JimS]

Thanks, Bill, welcome to our poast!

All good points you raise.  The primary reason I was looking towards a latest-and-greatest processor, specifically an 'M' designated processor, is that their power requirements (and heat generated) are significantly less than earlier processors.  At one point, Toshiba was using full desktop P4's in their notebooks, which flattened the batteries so quickly that they would run the processor at 1/2 speed when operated off of the battery.  Needless to say, this didn't go over to well.

Another reason for buying a little more than I need right now is to forestall functional obsolescence (okay, stop laughing, everyone...).  Some of the software I currently use runs fine on W98, but I know I?ll have to upgrade it soon.  I?m not saying that money?s no object, but I?d rather spend a little more now and get more use out of it than to scrimp and need to replace it in two years.

Dell seems like good bang for the buck, although users of IBM's and Toshiba's on Epinions seem to think that their systems are better built than the Dell's.  One Dell user hated his touch pad; I'm not crazy about the touch pad on a Dell I use at work, or on my wife's old Compaq, but maybe I just need to get used to them.

Thanks again.

[bill macdonald]

At the risk of beating a dead horse...Almost as soon as you make a selection, either with the O/S or the notebook itself, it will be yesterday's news.  MIcrosoft is working on the new generation of XP named Longhorn, I think, and new versions or configurations of notebooks happen regularly.

I presently have a 3 yr. old Quantex desk top P111 450 with win98Se and a Dell latitude CPiR 400, also with Win98SE.  Same applications on both machines.  Both work well with the kinds of applications you mentioned initially.   I can find no justification, at least rational justification, for upgrading.

[JimS]

I don't disagree on any of your points, Bill.  The app I use that probably requires the most horsepower is Powerpoint, and I do need to upgrade to a more current version.  I do use a proprietary app at work that's currently written for W98, but is being re-written for W2000, so I'll need to buy something that will be able to run this.  Since a good part of the time I'll use this system will be on a bus (about 1'10" each way), battery life is important.  The -M processors are definitely cooler-running and less power-hungry than non-M systems.  The bottom of the Dell latitude I use at work gets very warm on your lap.

I?ve never been into the biggest-fastest-latest-greatest thing.  My favorite story regarding this is the father-in-law of a colleague that up until last year was using a dual-floppy IBM XT with Bank Street Writer and an Okidata dot-matrix printer.  All he used it for was writing letters, and for that purpose, functionally, it was NOT obsolete.  Technically, yes, functionally, no.  He finally broke down and allowed my colleague to get him something me recent so he could explore the Internet

I think I will take your advice and look at the Dell refurbs.  Thanks again.

[Norm]

Hi Jim,

I am still using a dinosaur, but it is serving me in good stead.  I am using a 4 year old Quantex TS30i (almost identical to Dell Inspiron 7000).  I am running WinXP, but only after upgrading it to 576 MB RAM, 20 GB HD and PII 400 (from 128 MB RAM, 6 GB HD, PII300).  I too have been thinking about a new system.  

Currently everything works fine, of course not as fast as the new systems but fast enough.  I am thinking about doing some digital photo editing.  My system may not be quite up to snuff for that, if I want to do something complicated, like using Abode Photoshop.

Try having a look at Asus - they make great motherboards and their computer systems are earning some good reviews.  I have put a link for their North America web page.  

When I finally decide on a new system, I am pretty sure I will go more for the thin and light type system, with an eye on maximum battery life.  Like you I am looking at the Centrino processors as they offer the most efficient use of battery run time.  5-7 hours on a single battery is very good, and a second battery can bring that up to 10+ hours.  Right now my Quantex can last about 2 hours and can reach 4 with the second battery installed.

http://usa.asus.com/prog/spec.asp?m=M3000-N%20Series&langs=09

One thing about the Asus systems are the shared RAM for the graphics card.  This isn't too big a drawback if you are not into 3D type work like gaming or graphics design like modelling, autocad, etc.  They are not as pricey as the IBM/Toshiba/Dell brand names.  

As for getting a DVD RW+ you probably wouldn't use this feature all that much in the beginning.  A DVD/CDRW combo is much less expensive and offers much of the same benefits.

[JimS]

Thanks, Norm, I didn't know that Asus was making notebooks.  I glanced at their site; they look pretty nice, but I didn't see any prices or distributors.  I'll check out the site more fully later (I'm still at work...).  I used an Asus motherboard in the first computer I ever built, a P1-166.

Thanks again.

[John]

JimS, if you can afford it;  buy the most computer for your money. I like Dell. You can't beat their support site for help and it's a well recognized brand that is known to work and work well. Personally I like their Latitude line the best as they are built with business in mind.

Take a look at this link from DELL. I hope this help in your decision.

[query]

ASUS makes notebooks for distribution by smaller value-added resellers - they may or may not appear with the ASUS name.  ASUS is a large OEM for other components (they make mainboards for Dell, Gateway, HP, Compaq, etc., and they are the manufacturer of the new Palm Tungsten-C handhelds).

80% of all notebook computers come from one of a few Taiwanese firms - Compal and Quanta are the two largest, but there are others - Arima, FIC, Inventec, Wistron.  So no matter whose name is on it, one of a few Taiwanese firms probably made it.

That said, if you choose one of the more popular vendors (Dell, Toshiba, IBM, etc.) you'll have an easier time when it comes to obtaining parts - most of the Taiwanese firms don't do end-user support, so you're going to be relying on the reseller.

[JimS]

It's looking like the Dell Latitude D600 is the finalist.  I wasn't able to get everything I wanted in the refurb area, and I've had good luck with Dell at home and at work (although the hard drive on my wife's 4300S Dell is dying, after only 1.5 years!!!).  Locally, I'd be stuck with Best Buy/Circuit City/etc. if I wanted to buy the Toshiba or IBM, and I found many of the internet sites to buy these confusing.  The Dell is turning out to be more than I wanted to spend, but if I get what's in my cart, it's everything I'll need, for (hopefully) a long time.

I'll let you know...

[trav]

why dont you just get an eMachines desktop? they are sooo cheap at FutureShop

[dcsun]

why dont you just get an eMachines desktop? they are sooo cheap at FutureShop

I think we're talking about laptops here ;)  Also keep in mind that FutureShop is only in Canada, and most of the members here are in the U.S.

[JimS]

Yup, I need a notebook, and I'm a Jersey guy...

I'm trying to whittle down the price of this Dell, while still getting something that will technically have a decent lifespan.  If I need to get these features, I can swing it, but I?d still like to be as practical as possible.  So here are a few decisions I need to make:
1) I can get this system with Win2000, XP Pro or XP Home.  I?m leaning towards XP, since it?s more common and I?ve used it.  XP Pro and Win2000 are the same price; with XP Home, I can deduct $60.00.  Any thoughts?
2) The system I?ve selected at this point has a 1.40 GHz Pentium M processor with a 14.1? SXGA display.  This system can also be had with a 1.30 GHz processor and an XGA display for $150.00 less, or a 1.40 GHz processor with an XGA display for $50.00 less.  In my mind, there?s no real reason to spend $100.00 to go from 1.30 to 1.40 GHz, but here are the XGA vs. SXGA specs: 1024X768 vs. 1400X1600 pixels, .786 vs. 1.47 megapixels, 0.279 vs. 0.204 pixel pitch, and 130 cd/m2 (nits) vs. 150 cd/m2 (nits) luminance/brightness.  Bottom line, if SXGA is worth it, it?ll add $150.00 to the cost, and if it?s worth it, I?ll do it.  If not, the price is that much more palatable.  I plan on staring at this thing a lot.  Any thoughts?

Thanks again.

[scuzzy]

Not long ago I bought a Toshiba 5205-S503 (click here for forum poast). So far, I've been pleased with the unit. The price is a little on the steep side, but it's loaded with features.

You may want to give strong consideration to the new Toshiba M15-S405 (Intel Centrino). BestBuy sells this model for $1999, but it's available for $1750 from pcBin. The battery life on this model is pushing 6 hours. If I were buying today, the M15-S405 is probably the model I would lean toward.

[JimS]

Thanks, Scuzzy.  The only downside I can see to these are that they're a little porky compared to the Dell; 6.8 vs. 4.8 lbs.  Not much, but when you add the rest of the junk I keep in my bag, every little bit counts.  Toshiba was actually my early front-runner, based on reputation alone, but I was having some difficulty getting consistent specs on them from different sites.

My current total for the Dell is over $2,100.00, which is more than I was planning on spending, but I'm including Microsoft Office Professional in this.  For this amount, I'm not going to jump.  Thanks for the links, Scuzzy.  I think I'll research the Toshiba's a little more.

[scuzzy]

Jim,

I understand. I too thought long and hard before making my purchase. I spent countless hours/days researching one unit after another. For my needs, the Toshiba was right up my alley. You're right about the extra weight, but they're packed with features unmatched by most others.

The sound from the unit I bought is incredible for a laptop. Not that it was a main selling point for me, so much as it was icing on the cake.

[bill macdonald]

Jim,
Having suggested Dell as a brand earlier, I would also suggest you visit the Dell Community Forum. This is a series of boards for Dell users.  Start with www.support.dell.com.   Look for the latitude -general hardware forum.  there is a lot of posting going on about the D600 and D800 units and a variety of problems.  My sense from reading there is that these units are still being debugged.  Admittedly, these boards are the focus of problem oriented posts by users but it should give you  a sense of what some are experiencing.
Bill-

[JimS]

What a great resource Poaster's is!
Bill, there were six pages (!) of posts (that's what they're called elsewhere) concerning the heat the D600 drives create.  Some users are reporting the left palmrest, under which the hard drive is located, exceeds 130 degrees F!  My wife has an older Compaq that becomes uncomfortably warm after a while, so this is an issue for me.  Besides, if the palmrest is getting that warm, it can't be good for the drive.
Many of the users have returned their systems for a refund, and seemed sad to do so, since they otherwise liked the D600.  I'm glad I sat back and didn't jump to buy one.  I'll follow this board to see if Dell fixes this.  In the meantime, I'll research the Toshiba and IBM systems.
Thanks again.

[snorm]

I have worked with and on several types of laptops.  I really wouldn't recommend a Dell.  Of the ones I have worked on, about 90% are Dell.  They are a nice computer, but when they have problems, they have very bad tech support.  I have never had a support call that was under an hour.  And most of the time it is hold time or doing things I already did again, because they want to double check.  The Sony Viao are very nice.  They have a very nice screen with great clarity.  I have never had any problems with these (we have 4 or 5 of these).  The Toshiba laptops are also very nice and I personally haven't had any problems with them.
Also, I would go with Windows 2000 over XP.  XP is the newest and some people probably swear by it, but it is not as user friendly as 2000.  Definately do not get Windows ME.  It definately is the worst out there.  
The DVD-RW is nice only if you do lots with pictures or clips you would want saved on a DVD or if you plan on viewing lots of movies on it.  It is not something I would spend the money on if you aren't into these kinds of things.

I hope some of this helped.

[JimS]

Thanks, snorm.  I was ready to buy a Dell D600, but then I was directed to Dell's Community Forum, where there were too many not-completely-satisfied customers.  It sounds like the D600 is still a beta machine; there are consistent complaints about specific issues.  I agree, the Sony's look nice, but the screen may be too big for my uses; I'll be using this on a long daily bus ride.  I've also have some less-than-optimal tech support experiences with Sony, which moves them down (but not off of) my list.  The Toshiba machines are starting to look better to me; I haven't found many bad comments about them.  IBM systems sound really nice and well-made, but they're a little pricey.  People I've spoken with that use both W2000 and XP steer me towards W2000.  I'm not planning on getting a DVD player for this machine, although a burner is essential.

Thanks again, I appreciate the info.

[scuzzy]

FYI: I have remained satisfied with my Toshiba (model 5205-S503) purchase. If I were buying today, I would buy the same model without a second thought.

My unit came with WinXP Home preinstalled. So far, it's been dependable.

[JimS]

Well, I've finally settled on the IBM ThinkPad T40.  For my intended usage, this is far, far more computer than I?ll need, but what sold me was IBM?s reputation for durability, and in going for the T40, it should have the horsepower to last for quite a while.  Initially, I liked the Dell D600, but there were just too many dissatisfied purchasers of that system on Dell's User Forum.  In the end, it came down to Toshiba and IBM.  Both have very good reputations for durability, but the T40 weighs in at 4.9 pounds, as compared to the Toshiba Tecra (6.2 lbs) or the Satellite (7.1 lbs).  I?ve carried many laptops before; since my bag contains more than just the computer, weight is very important.  There are lighter Toshiba's, but cost much more and/or don't have a touchpad, only the "rubber eraser" pointing device; the T40 has both a touchpad and the eraser.  So far, I?m very impressed.

The T40 I bought has the following:
1.5 gHz Pentium M processor
Intel PRO/Wireless Network Connection and the Intel 855 Chipset Family (Centrino)
256 mB DDR SDRAM
40 gB 5,400 RPM hard drive
CD-RW/DVD-ROM combo drive
ATI Mobility Radeon 750 XGA graphics with 32 mB of video DDR SDRAM
14.1? TFT screen
Microsoft Windows XP Professional
This comes with a three-year warranty in a 1? thick 4.9-pound package.  I bought this from Nice Electronics (http://www.niceelectronics.com) for a total of 1899.98, including shipping.  I received it two days after ordering.

I?m going to order some more memory for it, but first I?ve got to quickly get up to speed on networking my computers to get some of my data files into it.  My Quantex doesn?t even have a network card, so I?ll have to get one.  An Ethernet crossover cable sounded like the best was to copy files between two systems that have Ethernet cards, so I bought a CAT 5e.  I?ll need to read up on how to do this.  Any quick tips on configuring W98SE and XPPro systems to do this?

Thanks.

[Chandler]

JimS, to network them up quickly configure the following settings (don't use the XP wizard, it stuffs it up)

Quantex
IP Address:  192.168.0.2
Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0
Enable NetBIOS Over TCP/IP
DNS Server:  (blank)
Computer Name: quantex
Workgroup: HOME

These can be set in the Networking Control Panel applet.  You may to install File and Printer Sharing (or tick some boxes to enable it).



IBM
IP Address:   192.168.0.3
Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0
Enable NetBIOS Over TCP/IP
DNS Server:  (blank)

These are set in Network Connections under Local Area Connection Properties.

Computer Name: ibm
Workgroup: HOME

These are set in System Properies.

[JimS]

Wow, this is great, thanks, Chandler.  I'm going to pick up an network card for the Quantex as soon as I can.  Are there any specific cards you or anyone else would recommend?  I'm going to try this first on my Dell system at work, since that's where most of my data files are.  I'll let you know how it works.

Thanks again.

[query]

Any PCMCIA network card will work fine - if you buy a 32-bit one, make sure the notebook has a Cardbus slot or it won't fit.

Most PII and up notebooks have cardbus slots - many Pentium notebooks do not.

[scuzzy]

Is the Quantex a desktop? If so, I recommend 3Com. However, if you need to save money and still get fairly decent quality, consider either LinkSys or D-Link.

[JimS]

Thanks, Query and Scuzzy.  Yes, the Quantex is a desktop (tower).  Query, I tried the settings you suggested on the Dell I use at work; it didn't work, possibly because it's loaded with Novell network and email software.  It doesn't seem that I'll have a chance to get a network card and install it until next week.  In a fit of desperation, I ran out and splurged on a USB flash drive.  Those thing are beyond cool; this tiny little thing seamlessly installed on the Dell, Quantex and IBM, and holds 256 mB of data.  It solved my immediate problem, although I'd still like to figure out how to use the crossover cable.

Thanks again - I'll let you know how it works out when I pick up a network card.

[Chandler]

I picked up a used PCI 3Com card for ?3 off eBay including PnP.  It works great and unlike newer (more expensive) cards, is hardware based so it doesn't slow down the computer.

[query]

Check to make sure you have TCP/IP installed along with the Novell protocols (IPX/SPX).  If you are no longer using the Novell network, you can remove those protocols (they should not interfere either way with a crossover connection between machines).