Building a new machine - SEE POASTER'S HAMMER

[Roopert]

Hi all!

New to the board as a poster but have been reading the posts for some time and would like to thank everyone for their time.

The last computer I built was back in 98. It  was my graduation present to myself and no expense was spared. The "monster" was a:

PII 450
Asus P2B-S  
IBM LVD ULTRA SCSI II 20GB (hehe)
Viper 550 16 MB
128 MB of Ram
Sound Blaster "live"
Veiw Sonic Ps790 monitor
Camebridge 4 speak + woofer

For its time this machine kicked some bootie. I have done some modest upgrades, more ram and a Gforce 440 video card, and have been fairly happy with it untill recently. I couldn't run the newer games, but I spend most of my gaming time with EQ and some older war games (steel panthers etc) anyways.

I spent a few days in my home town over the holiday break and had a chance to see my friend's new computer system and some of the "newer" games and features. I was blown away. MUST HAVE! LOL

So I started researching the computer market and technology (I enjoy the hardware side of computing but am lost in programing). Things have changed to say the least and I was hoping some of you could answer a few questions I have. I will try to break down my questions in topic sections. Thank you in advance!

CPU:
I have spent hours researching price/perfomance ratios and have decided on AMD. My choices are:

32 Bit OS
Athlon XP 2700+ 333 FSbus

64/32 Bit OS
Athlon 64 3200+

Athlon 64 3000+  

Questions:
1. Is a 64 bit OS coming soon? I know there is a beta of Windows XP 64 out there.
2. Is the 64 Bit environment just hype or is the industry actually going to commit to it?
3. Is it worth the extra money for the Athlon 64 3200+ with the added 512 cache?

Hard Drive:
1. I have noticed a new mode called SATA for hard drives. I have read that it supports a high transfer rate. What's the deal on this mode?
2. Seagate has been a leader in SCSI, are their SATA products quality?

Video:
1. ATI seems to have a lead in this area. Are their products supported?

Anything else you guys/gals can think of would be great!

Thanks,

C

[Tranquility_Base]

1. Windows XP 64-bit edition should be out in the second half of 2004. Rumours have it that the next version, code-named longhorn, will also be 64-bit.

2. AMD looks like its committing to it and the definite advantage is tht it kicks major ass being backward compatible with 32 bit applications and handling them amazingly well, beating the 3.2 GHz Intel P4 in benchmarks. The onboard memory controller adds to the performance.

3. No. Not until there are fully functional 64 bit software and apps that take full advantage of the processor's capabilities. For now, any Athlon XP from the 2500+ to the 2800+ is very sufficient. I have the 2500+ and its very comparable to the 2.4 GHz P4. Everything runs extremely fast on my machine, mainly becoz its newly assembled but im very happy with the processor. As usual, AMD is the best bang for the buck with 90$ for the 2500+, when the P4 2.4C is 160$. But if ur going all out for the best performance possible, pay 700$ for the Athlon FX-51. Its the best processor out.

Hard drives:

1. SATA basically increases the maximum data transfer rate from 133 MB/s to 150 MB/s, which is not noticeable in every day applications. The main advantage over parallel ATA at the moment is thinner cables, which optimizes airflow. But its not worth the extra cost IMO.

2. Seagate is relatively newer than the other brands in the SATA market. So their SATA drives get hotter and arent as good as the other brands. Western Digital boasts the best SATA drives with the Raptor series, that spin at an amazing 10,000 rpm, but are quite expensive. If u want to get them, get the 36 GB version of the WD Raptor as ur primary, for very fast OS and apps, and a separate conventional and larger drive for ur storage. I dont know about Maxtor in SATA, but i think in this theyre next after WD. In parallel ATA, get a Maxtor Diamond Max Plus 9 with 8 MB buffer and 120 GB, or a Seagate Barracuda with 8MB buffer and 120 GB also. I dont think u can go wrong with either. If u wanna get a SCSI drive, the best is the Seagate Cheetah, then comes the Maxtor Atlas, both at 15,000 rpm.

Video Card:

Yes ATI has the current performance crown, and their driver support is becoming much better. Basically, if u even have an nVIDIA motherboard and an ATi card, they should work together if u have the latest nforce drivers and catalyst drivers (for the mobo and card) and installed.
The best card at the moment is the 9800XT, which is a tweaked Radeon 9800 Pro, and which includes a coupon for Half life 2 so u get it for free when its released. But these are way too expensive.
The best midrange card u can get would be the 9600 Pro, or pay a bit extra and get the 9600 XT.

Hope this helped.

[Neon]

Hello Roopert, welcome to Poasters!

You have asked lots of questions in one poast, and based on your earlier system, I can already see that you like high quality and high performance in your computer.

CPU:
AMD is a good choice.
1. There is already 64-bit Linux available, SuSE, Mandrake, and Gentoo seem to be leading the pack at the moment. The Windows beta is "out there", but it is not generally available to the public - only beta testers. Microsoft has not announced a release date, and current speculation varies - maybe this spring? The main holdup is likely getting all of the hardware drivers ready. It takes time.

2. I think the industry has commited to 64-bit. There is a definite need for it now in certain application areas such as databases. Microsoft, HPaq, Fujitsu, IBM, Sun, Oracle, Epic Games, nVidia, motherboard companies, and many others have signed on. However, the transition will go gradually, as it did from 16-bit to 32-bit, so that we don't have to throw out all of the existing 32-bit software.

3. Right now, the Athlon 64 3000+ is probably the best bang for the buck in the CPU universe. The 3200+ performs just slightly better, so the extra L2 cache doesn't make a great difference.

Hard Drive:
1. I think SATA is great just for the reduction in cable clutter and elimination of the whole stupid master/slave jumper setup. Although the SATA interface is capable of faster data transmission that the old PATA (150 vs. 133MB/s), the 7200 rpm drives top out at about 60MB/s. One drive does not saturate the IDE bus, but multiple drives such as a RAID array may. Thus, there is currently no performance gain (for a single drive), so you will have to look at prices and decide if the current advantages are worth it. I think they are, and of course SATA will become the standard. Most motherboards now support it. Note that there is currently limited 64-bit driver support for SATA, so you need to check which SATA controller you motherboard uses if you plan to go 64-bit right now. If you plan to wait for 64-bit Windows, then the driver issues will likely be solved by then. If you plan to stick with 32-bit until then, there should be no problem.

2. Seagate's IDE products are ok. Their reliability is about the same as other manufacturer's, which is to say good but not great. ;) The Seagates are generally not near the top in performance, but the difference is only a few percent. They also tend to run cool, which helps longevity.

Video:
ATI seems to be in the 32-bit performance lead for now. However, nVidia is first out of the gate with 64-bit drivers. ATI has only beta 64-bit drivers. I expect that situation will be remedied by the time Windows is released. As with SATA, you can use either with a 32-bit OS.

[Roopert]

Thank you T-Base and Neon!

The Athlon 64 3000+ seems to be the best CPU for the money. Especially if the market does commit to 64 bit in the near future, but like you guys noted, it is no slouch in 32 bit. I have also read a report benchmarking the 64 3000+(overclocked) and 64 3200+ where the differences were 0. The 64 3000+ (overclocked) was stable as well. I can find the link if u guys are interested because it appears the Athlon 64 3000+ is one hell of a value like you noted. It even gave the P4 a hard time due to the onboard memory controller and low memory latency. We're talking single channel vs a dual 800mhz bus and the the single channel won!

I will be running a 32 bit OS when I put it together - Windows XP. I will just have to wait for Windows XP - 64.

The hard drive will most likely be the 160 WD sata. we'll see how the funds hold up. I can always, like you noted, go for a lower size HD and save to a larger. If I have to I will run off the smaller and buy a larger one later on.

The video card is another area where I may be able cut costs if needed. I will more than likely go with an ATI but probably a 9600 pro from Abit.

If I can swing in $ I will opt for the Athlon 64 3200+ because of the larger cache and the possiblity that it may prove to be a boon in 64 bits.

If you guys know of decent vendors please post them. I am using "pricewatch" at this time to compile a price list. I'll post it as I go.

Thank you again!

C

[Neon]

If I were to build a new system this week, I would probably make the very same choices you have indicated. My favorite vendors are NewEgg and Multiwave Technologies. ZipZoomfly is also regularly recommended. When using pricewatch, make sure you also go to ResellerRatings to check out the reliability of the vendor.

[Whizbang]

If I were to build a new system this week, I would probably make the very same choices you have indicated. My favorite vendors are NewEgg and Multiwave Technologies. ZipZoomfly is also regularly recommended. When using pricewatch, make sure you also go to ResellerRatings to check out the reliability of the vendor.

I have only recently begun shopping NewEgg but have found their prices to be the most consistantly low of any.  Another factor is the friendliness of the front-end, AKA customer service.  I am still looking over my shoulder on this, but I really have been impressed in my short dealings with them and likely will continue giving them a first look.
Be sure to run everything you can through Pricewatch.com.  They often have promos with their registered dealers and you can get better deals through them.  I just saved $5.00 on  mobo from NewEgg by going through Pricewatch.  The Pricewatch BUY button was messed up and I had to request the coupon discount from NewEgg after the purchase, which was no problemo with NewEgg.

[Roopert]

I did some research on possible vendors and NewEgg, from the feedback, seems to be the best out there. Thanks!

Going to keep from old system:

Full Tower with 350 watt power supply
Floppy drive
Veiw Sonic PS790 monitor
Camebridge 4 speaker + woofer
Modem 52k
Purchase Options in US $:

CPU: Retail
Athlon 64 3000+ (521 Cache) 238.00
Athlon  64 3200+ (1 Meg Cache) 299.00
I am leaning towards the 3200+ for the extra cache and what it may provide in 64 bit, but the 64 3000+ can be a cost cutter if needed.

MOBO: MSI
K8T Neon 126.00
Has evertything I need, but earlier MSI mobo using K8 chips were kind of quirky. This is 2nd generation and reviews have the bugs ironed out. On board sound too, which I will use to cut costs till the next upgrade fit LOL.

RAM: Retail
512 meg Corsair low latency stick 133.00
Don't have to worry about 2 sticks here for dual channel - CPU doesn't support it BUT it has the controller on board and posts some serious performace due to exteemly low latency. If any know of faster RAM or a better choice please tell - CPU to RAM performance is important for this system.

Video: Saphire
ATI 9600XT 159.00
128 megs of ram and boasts perfomance close to the 9700.

Hard Drives: Retail
1 WD 36 gig Raptor (sata) 124.00
2 Hitachi 80 gig (7200 rpms and sata) 77.00 x 2
Torn here between the Raptor's 10000 rpms and the performance of 2 satas in raid with more capacity. Need some help here please.

Opticle: Asus
DVD x8 CD x48 31.00
I like Asus and it had some good reviews.

OS: OEM
Windows XP Home 91.00
Windows XP Pro 139.00
Not sure what the Pro offers in terms of system stability but would hope it doesn't mean the home edition is buggy. Help here too please.

The price should come out to 1100.00 (+- 100.00).

Let me know what you all think and Thank you!

Chris

[Mark H]

The WD Raptor drives are noisy with a whine to them so if you want quiet, you might shy away from them. They are very fast. For me they aren't fast enough to justify the price. You could get a 120 gig drive for less than the 37 gig raptor. I would stay away from Hitachi hard drives. Get a Western Digital JB edition drive, which has an 8 meg cache and a 3 year warranty.

As to Windows XP Home and Pro, they both use the NTFS file system and look alike. The Pro version is better at networking if you are going to network more than 2 or 3 computers. I believe that Pro also done some encrypting that home doesn't do.

Overall, the system looks great. As I said, I would change the hard drive brand.

Mark H

[query]

If you are going for a Raptor, either get the 74 G version or wait for the 37 G replacement for the original - the performance is much improved, and the motors are fluid bearing now, so noise should be less of an issue.  Agreed - avoid Hitachi until they prove better than their predecessors (from IBM).  Go with WD, or Seagate - or Maxtor.

WD appears to have reduced its warranty on 80G drives even for the JB series, so if that's a consideration, get the 120 - or check Maxtor or Seagate (verify warranty - many are just one year).

XP Pro and Home differ not at all in stability - only in features.  If you need an encrypted filesystem, the automated system restore, to join a corporate or campus network, a webserver (IIS), or more than five simultaneous connections, get Pro.  Otherwise, get Home and save some money.

[Roopert]

Made a few changes based on feedback - thanks all.

I'm going to drop the Raptor and go for the 120gig WD-JD sata series after reviewing it (thanks Mark).
105.00

Going to stick with Home Edition of Windows XP.
91.00

Going to roll the savings into a ATI 9700 Pro from Colorpower.
219.00

Thanks again and will keep you all updated. Should have this machine up and running in 2 weeks. Then we'll bench it and tweak!!!

Chris

[Mark H]

Actually, you can get the WD 120 gig drive JB series which is an ATA drive instead of SATA for 11 dollars less. The SATA drives are not any faster than the ATA drives at this point, so they aren't worth the extra money in my opinion.

Mark H

[Neon]

The main advantage that SATA offers right now is the smaller cable. This can help with improving airflow through the case, which in turn can help keep temperatures down. SATA will become the standard and PATA will eventually get phased out by the drive manufacturers. You will have to decide whether that is worth $11.

[Tranquility_Base]

I suggest u go with a Maxtor or Seagate if ur going for parallel ATA instead of Western Digital.

[Roopert]

I think I will stick with the WD sata for 2 reasons.

1. I have heard of linking problems between sata and ata drives in the same system.

2. Air flow may become a problem as we tweak the system (OCing).

If it does come down to cutting 11.00 or no system I will start here and go with the ata.

Thanks Neon, Mark, T, and Q - hey, when I get this sucker running I would love to bench it and give scores for all to read. When that time comes could you help with finding the most credible bechmarking tools?

Chris

[saoirse]

SYSmark 2002 & 3DMark 2001 SE are my personal favourite benchmarking utilities.

From another perspective, you may wish to try Unreal Tournament.

saoirse  

[Carskick]

3DMark2003 is a lot more intensive than 3dMark2001, but if you want a good idea, and you have a fast internet connection, try both.

[Tranquility_Base]

Theres also the SiSoftware Sandra benchmarking tools which is a comprehensive suite and is available for free.
For stress testing ur computer u could use Prime95 and run it for a few hours to see if ur computer can really handle the heat.
As the others suggested, 3dMark 2003.
And u should test the frame rates using FRAPS in Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell. Its a very taxing game and will really test ur system.

[Roopert]

Have done some research and need to know what onboard sound is hardware and what is a software cpu taxing emulator.

Does the MSI K8T Neon FIS2R use hardware? It states: Realtek ALC655 6-Channel Audio as onboard sound.

I have a HD update as well. I can get the WD Raptor 74gig at 10k rpm, 8meg cache, and 4.5 seek (LOL good lord) while keeping costs within my reach.
260.00

[query]

The Realtek uses an audio codec (i.e., it's software).

[Roopert]

Thank you Query for this and other posts - was not sure if "Query" was a user name or a anon post form another source.

Would it be safe to assume that if "codec" was not included in the onboard audio it would be non-software?

I see a mobo with onboard audio listed as: 6-Channel AC97 Audio. No codec listed here.

Thank you for your time!

[Roopert]

Found a mobo that actually list onbaord sound as "VIA ENVY 24PT 7.1 Channel Hardware Audio".

Hope its not a codec.

[Roopert]

Ok, I believe I have the final solution to this upgrade. I must say I am excited as I was in 98 (meaning my wife knows I am up to something, I review items as I fall asleep, and I check these boards when I come home from work (YA its good). This time I have you guys and am a bit wiser. Feels good.

I would like to explain the onbaord sound issue. In 98 when I built my system the sound card didn't make a difference when using my Cambridge set up. A friend had a lower end sound card than "live" and we could not tell the difference using my speaker set up. I fail to see how sound cards (creative labs) could possibly offer me more than onboard (hardware) sound. I have heard the 60 3D sounds at once stance (sorry 30 sounds in any environment would sound like static). As long as the hardware is doing the work I'm sure it will be fine.

Drum roll...

Chaintech nForce3 mobo
Has -I think- onboard harware audio.
179.00

Powercolor Radeon 9700 Pro
219.00

AMD Atlon 64 3200+
299.00

2x512 Corsair XMS DDR 400 Cas 2 3 2 6 T1
264.00

WD Raptor 74gig
260.00

Asus DVD/CD
31.99

Windows XP Home
91.00

About 1,300 US.

[Neon]

I have heard good things said about - but not actually heard for myself - the Via Envy sound solution.

That Chaintech board has all the bells and whistles. It has a good review at AMDZone.

[Mark H]

I'm interested in hearing how the new system comes along. ;D

Mark H

[Hoot]

mee too.

[Tranquility_Base]

I didnt know the Corsair XMS sold at this price for 512 MB. I thought it was much more expensive.
Word of advice, get a DVD/CD-RW instead. Its nice to have the option of burning cds, even if u dont do it tht much, and its only like 20-30 dollars more.

Other than tht, everything is spot on. Good job selecting the components.

[Roopert]

Hi all!

Have a question. The motherboard supports 2gigs of ram but only has 3 slots for ram. I can only find the corsair xms in 512 sticks and am wondering how, in the future, I could place an another gig in the system? Do they stack now a days, one on top of another?

I plan on getting a DVD/CD burner in the very near future, so I may hold off on the CD burner for now.

Also, I am thinking of going with a WD 160gig  sata for about 123.00 and rolling the extra cash into an ATI 9800 pro 128 instead of the 9700. I think this would be a better selection, but would like your input :)

Also, I have been looking at case cooling and need a fan that you can mount in the case, and then point in at an area you would like it to blow on. I believe I have found one that is labeled as "bracket" mounted.. Any suggestions? I also selected a PCI slot exhaust fan that will be right next to the Video Card and an intake fan for the front grill. The Ram comes with platinum heat sinks and the CPU has a fan + heat sink. The case is a Super Tower with 6 bays - very large and I hope, with the above fans, this will be enough for cooling.

Here's the complete list. Let me know if you find anything that is questionable.
Thanks,
Chris
CHAINTECH nForce3 150 Chipset Motherboard for AMD Socket 754 CPU, Model "ZNF3-150 ZENITH" -RETAIL
Specifications:
Supported CPU: AMD Socket 754 Athlon64 new generation Processors
Chipset: NVIDIA nForce3 150
FSB: Integrated into Processor type
RAM: 3x DIMM for DDR400/333/266 Max 2GB
IDE: 3x UltraDMA 66/100/133 up to 6 Devices
Slots: 1x AGP 4X/8X, 5x PCI, 1x CMR
Ports: 2xPS2,1xLPT,2xCOM,1xLAN,6xUSB2.0(Rear 2),Audio Ports
Onboard Audio: VIA ENVY 24PT 7.1 Channel Hardware Audio
Onboard LAN: Broadcom 10/100/1000Mbps Ethernet
Onboard SATA/RAID: 4x SATA 150 with RAID 0/1/5/10
Onboard 1394: VIA VT6306 supports 3 IEEE1394a ports
Form Factor: ATX more info-> N82E16813152031  
$179.99  


ATI RADEON 9800PRO Video Card, 128MB DDR, 256-bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP -RETAIL
Specifications:
Chipset/Core Speed: RADEON 9800PRO/380MHz
Memory/Effective Speed: 128MB DDR/680MHz
BUS: AGP 1X/2X/4X/8X
Ports: VGA Out(15 Pin D-Sub)+TV-Out(S-Video Out)+DVI connector
Support 3D API: DirectX?9, OpenGL?2.0
Cable/Accessories: 2 Adapters, 2 Cables, Driver CD, Manual
Max Resolution@32bit Color: 2048X1536@85Hz
Retail Box (See pics for details) more info-> N82E16814102286  
$298.00  


AMD Athlon 64 3200+, 1MB L2 Cache, The Only 64-bit Windows Compatible Processor - Retail
Specification
Model: AMD Athlon 64 3200+
Core: ClawHammer
Operating Frequency: 2.0GHz
FSB: Integrated int chip
Cache: L1/64K+64K; L2/1024K
Voltage: 1.5V
Process: 0.13Micron
Socket: Socket 754
Multimedia Instruction: MMX, SSE, SSE2, 3DNOW!, 3DNOW!+
Packaging: Retail Box (Heatsink and Fan included) more info-> N82E16819103416$282.00  


Corsair XMS Extreme Memory Speed Series, Low Latency (Twin Pack) 184 Pin 1GB(512MBx2) DDR PC-3200 - Retail
Specification
Manufacturer: Corsair
Speed: DDR400(PC3200)
Type: 184 Pin DDR SDRAM
Error Checking: Non-ECC
Registered/Unbuffered: Unbuffered
Cas Latency: 2-3-2-6 T1
Bandwidth: 3.2GB/s
Organization: two 64M x 64 -Bit
Special Features: Low Latency with Platinum Heat Spreader
Warranty: Lifetime more info-> N82E16820145436
$256.00  


Western Digital 160GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive, Model WD1600JD, OEM Drive Only
Specifications:
Capacity: 160GB
Average Seek Time: 8.9 ms
Buffer: 8MB
Rotational Speed: 7200 RPM
Interface: Serial ATA
Features: Not specified
Manufacturer Warranty: 3 years
Remark: OEM Drive Only more info-> N82E16822144152
$132.00  


Asus 16X DVD-ROM Drive, Model DVD-E616P1, Retail
Specifications:
Read Speed: 48X CD-ROM, 16X DVD-ROM
Interface: E-IDE/ATAPI
Buffer: 256KB
Access Time: DVD-ROM: 90ms, CD-ROM: 85ms
Data Transfer Rate: DVD-ROM: 21640 KB/s (16X), CD-ROM: 7200 KB/s (48X)
Features: Full Accessibility and Playability: Access all CDs, DVD-ROM/ R/ RW, DVD+R/RW, DVD-Video Discs
Remark: Retail (see pictures for details) more info-> N82E16827135015 $32.99  


AOC 120mm System bracket fan, Model:SBF-12B.
Specification
Compatibility: Case
Bearing Type: Unknow
Nominal Speed(RPM): 2000
Max Air Flow(CFM): 80
Max Pressure: Unknow
Fan Material: Plastic
Heat Sink Material: N/A
Rated Voltage: 12 V
Operating Voltage: Unknow
Noise(dBA): 41 more info-> N82E16835888308
$11.00  


Dynatron System Exhaust Blower fit to PCI Slot,Model:DB1206SP.
Features:
Compatibility: PCI Slot
Dimensions: 111.2x90.4x21.6(mm)
Bearing Type: Sleeve
Nominal Speed(RPM): 2800
Max Air Flow:(CFM):10.5
Max Pressure: 0.3 Inch-H2O
Rated Voltage: 12V DC
Connector: 4-Pin
Noise(dBA): 28 more info-> N82E16835888602
$3.99  


Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition with Service Pack SP1a - OEM Designed exclusively for home computing. From digital photos, music, and video to building a home network, Windows XP Home Edition brings you into the digital age with ease. Built on the solid foundation of Windows 2000, Windows XP Home Edition also sets the new standard in efficient and dependable computing.
*Must be Purchased with Hardware!!* more info-> N82E16837102141  
$91.00

[query]

2G RAM would be 512+512+1024.  There are gigabyte modules, if you're willing to pay for them - they're expensive.

Front fans should pull air in;  rear fans, exhaust it out.  The upcoming BTX board and chassis design may change that.

Many fans snap into a plastic bracket mounted on the case rather than fasten with screws or bolts - check the case documentation; it should tell you.

[Tranquility_Base]

Wow big question mark on the optical drive.

256 KB cache? No way. 2 MB minimum. A cheap solution would be a LiteOn. I have one and it works perfectly. Also, if ur getting a DVD-ROM only without a CD burner, u might as well go for the highest speed, 56x, or even 52x, though it wont make much of a difference. But i really recommend u get a cd burner now. Theyre dirt cheap.

I think the Radeon 9800 Pro at the moment is a waste of money. The 9700 Pro is a legendary chip. Its really awesome. As someone else mentioned, the 9700 Pro gives frame rates too bloody fast to notice with the naked eye. The 9800 Pro gives frame rates too fast to be noticed by the naked eye, and a little bit more.
Investing in it i think is pointless at the moment unless like Mark u really need that extra few frames. I mean, who cares if instead of 45 fps in Splinter Cell u get 55 fps with all the visuals turned on in both cases? Its not really a long term investment when u get the 9800 Pro, simply becoz any game is a walk in the park for the 9700 pro, u save like 50 bucks, and the 9800 pro will get cheaper ;)

[Roopert]

I took a look in newegg and could not find a buffer size larger than 512. LiteOn's buffer size was not listed and boasted some really crappy access times. There was a Samsung with 512 buffer and good access times. I will probably get that one instead of the Asus.

I think I will stick with the 9800 pro. When the next generation games, HL2, come out the extra frame rates may keep the card viable longer than the 9700. I'll spend extra now vs. later

I have decided to put a blow hole on the top of my case. We'll see how that works.

I'll keep you guys updated. If everything goes according to plan I should order in 8 days :) Then we burn-in, bench, tweek, and bench.

Thank you all!

Chris