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[Redhawk]

Nice try, but no.



pat

(By the way, nice job, Ace.)

[Ace]

Hawk poses a good question, and offered a range of pertinent examples of joke topics/targets/subjects.  Others would include the elderly, kids, Indian tech/customer service workers... I am in no way going to attempt to speak for Administration, since I am just a worker bee who drones on.

Couple things came to my mind, as I pondered the same question while pulling out tiny embedded tough little staples and part of the skin of my fingers these last couple hours.  For what it's worth, my take:

I was startled to see the poast headline, and I asked myself "why..?"  I guess when I saw "Arabs" as the subject, I thought the same as if it had said "Jews."  I think it revolves around the guideline statement of no offense to ethnic groups or peoples.  I'd see it in terms of the ethnic group offense.  With race as a subsidiary.  As if it had said "Two Hispanics" or "Two Blacks" or "Two Whites."  You know, personally, the term "whites" strikes me as not effectively offensive, since it's such a general target... To my perspective, it's so vague it's almost stupid.  Of course, I have a hunch Hispanics and Blacks probably feel the same about the other two.

I think too it depends if the joke is about  those subjects mentioned, or just includes them.  I don't recall any joke about Christmas; we joked about how people got overly sensitive and cautious to even using the word this season, and I joked about how the holiday has become this weird blend of religious/commercial/historic allusions where it sort of loses the essence.  Plus, the practice of the "counter" holiday movement, where one group has to have "their" holiday promoted too, to the point that nothing is left as Bubba so lovingly sketched out.  We joked about Chinese industry taking over the world's manufacturing, but I don't think the Chinese were targeted or insulted as a people...  Same with Japanese auto manufacturers; if anything, it was complimentary on how Americans were botching up our own means to subsistence and market share.

I was sitting beside a Jewish coworker at our corporate convention; the guest of honor was an guest professor from Lebanon who had studied and written extensively on the history and conflicts of the Mideast.  In viewing him, her comment was "Boy, he sure doesn't fit the stereotype, does he."  My thoughts were:
* what "stereotype"...?
* No, but you sure do lady.

Were the 9-11 attackers Arab?  Yes, I believe that was confirmed.  But they were also: Mideasterners Men "Islamic" Humans Mercenaries Murderers maybe Afghans and most definitely Al Qaeda (I'm not sure of the spelling of that, as it seems to change).  Just as the Oklahoma City bombers were Americans Men Rednecks Mercenaries(probably) "Christian"  Murderers etc.  Now, of all those choices, all true, which one is deserving and usable as the definitive identifier...?  

I'd say if you do a joke with "Two Al Qaeda Guys walk into a bar"... it's gonna be real hard for someone to say "Hey, that's not right to pick on them..."  Same way as if you said "Two Nazis were..".  But not "Two Germans."  At least, that would be my interpretation of what is defensible, and allowable without all but the most extreme sensitivity/unnecessary outrage.  By their abuse, some "peoples" deserve it in return, in my opinion.  But going with one of the other character traits of their being isn't fair, justified or meaningful.  I'm personally not very offendable, but mostly because I support the notion that if Nobody is safe, and Nobody is "off limits", and EVERYbody gets put down then it's evenhanded and alright.  I guess I'd be ok if a Jewish woman and an Arab guy made fun of each other...  But not an Asian making fun of either.

Plus, it depends on your perspective and nature.  Two Polish guys telling Polack jokes is different from two Italians telling French jokes (I don't know if that ever occurs in nature, but just as an example).  A Scotsman joking about Scotsmen is ok, by me, but not an Irishman joking about one.  It's the difference in Chris Rock or Bill Cosby criticizing black people compared with a white comedian. A blonde making fun of blonds... redneck of rednecks.. man of men.  Plus, is it reciprocated and evened out?  Can a man make fun of women, and does a woman then include the opposite take on men?  I think that makes it ok, too.  I made fun of British chocolate biscuits and this British guy made fun of American breakfast tastes. It was uncalled for and cruel, but even handed that way. Some blonde jokes have the brunette or redhead taking the hit... Some old farmers come off as being incredibly insightful, and intelligent, and wise.

Lastly, is it to be funny?  Mean?  Sarcastic?  Retaliatory?  Offensive? Educational?  Any could be possible, as the intent.  

I always feel ignorant, more than usual, to not have seen the poast...  Of course, I guess that's the point.  I can really only think of two joke "targets" that by nature are always appropriate, can't be offensive, and are completely deserving of ANY slight or insult or attack:

1. Pandas
2. Jesters

Even monkeys, as deserving as they are of being abused especially verbally, have some restrictions on their usage in joking.  Just those two groups are really "safe" for joking.

ace; hold it a minute

[Bill]

A panda and Jester walk into this overly long bar....

[Ace]

Real funny.  That's what I get, for taking time off today to beat myself senseless.  And, you to help.

You know, I counted the staples.  140 per step, removed.  I felt every one.  That's called "empathy."

Ace; I like Scotch, but I don't care for Scots much somedays...

[Bill]

I like a good joke most days, but not always the jokester.  You however are the exception.  

Let's see..140 staples per step times......

However your original point(s) were well taken.  I think the character or content of the joke/humour is the issue and what the target really is supposed to be.

Bill; staples have points too.

[scuzzy]

Well, golly. I don't think anyone can possibly explain this any better than did Ace.

As Admins we have the self-imposed task of maintaining order in the court. This is not always easy, and sometimes people get their feelings hurt when we take some sort of action against them.

We certainly aren't perfect, but we do attempt to maintain some sort of civility in the forum. We also take reasonable steps to not offend other ethnic groups, while attempting not to be ridiculous in our censoring. Some people do have itty-bitty feelings. We try to be thoughtful, while at the same time not catering to that particular group.

Thanks for the well thought-out dissertation, Ace. Maybe it?s time to promote you to the rank of PFC (Panda-hater First Class).

[Ace]

Geez Louise.. here I give this great speech in response to nothing in particular, in an empty hall.  Criminy.

Why don't I just talk to myself...

Well, actually, I've tried that.  First reason I don't is because I've got one lousy attention span.  I don't even bother to pay attention to anything from me.  Usually, I'm thinking about lunch or ethnic cleansing whenever I even poast something.  And as you can tell, I sure don't recall it after.  Secondly, I don't remember what the first reason was.  I'm sure it was a good one.

I also was under the misconception that word count would help boost my poast levels beyond the already astronomical count, but apparently that is not the case.  I will just go with 1 or 2 word responses, for here on out, since they count the same as wordy ones and are a lot easier on my sore fingers, too.

Also, in response to Bill's inquiry, 7 steps up, seven down.  Also, I do not want "Panda" anywhere near my entitlement or name tag or janitorial closet door plaque.  

Ace; as Slim Pickens could have said in a certain western I cannot quote as it is morally and socially reprehensible and offensive, that's a ___ (lot) of staples.

[Bill]

Yeah, and then some.  Your effort was not for nought.  Maybe someone will say you hit the tack on the head...wait, no,  probably painful recollections.

You're not talking to yourself unless you speak as you keyboard.  I try really hard not to do that, much.    There are poasters here, really, there are.  Hey, you got an accolade from the Law Enforcement Officer and Applicance Landscaper.

If you want to boost your poast count, try the Trav method.  Worked for him, and then he vanished.  Maybe the light blub burned out.  Maybe he hjust exhausted his supply.

Bill; the semi-lone ranger.

[Ace]

You know, speaking of which.. he did appear in the Laptop room recently.  I looked, and his previous poast before that was the photos of his Denon and cool new stereo stuff.  Didn't even update his dang photo from 10 years ago.

He's probably lurking, even as we speak write.  If so, "Hi Trav."

Yeah, I got an accolade.  First I thought that was one of those Cadillac SUV's and I was excited, but then I realized it wasn't.  No raise though, for the New Year, again.  Sigh.  Just another day at work, another couple (dozen) poasts, another conspiracy theory...

And more to clean up.  Where's Johnny, anyway?  Did he ever get out of Michigan?  Geez, I'd hope so.  Especially in winter.

Ace; I hate stair steppers.

[Bill]

Carpeting is the answer.  A little carpet hides a lot of flaws.  The first house we bought had a "remodeled bathroom" with wall to wall.  As it turned out, the "wall to wall" covered a hole in the floor, rotted away by a leaking drain.  

Last I knew, he was trapped in the wiring on the bus and waiting for the cutters to arrive from eBay.  Probably snowed in by now.  

Maybe you should talk to Toussaint.  He worked wonders hereabouts.

Bill; I think it was "a___(load) of staples)"

[Ace]

I was paraphrasing; it wasn't a direct quote.  I'm thinking of possibly becoming a professor, since I didn't give that up for the new year after not being one.  I'm thinking of teaching a class in Plagiarism.  Sort of a 'how to" seminar.  

No stinking way am I going to carpet over the stairs I uncarpeted.  That would be so backwards I could do a flip off them.  Actually, I did flip off them this week.  Especially when the tack let loose and I slammed my hand into the step below.  

Ace; we have to move my sister in law today.  She's a load, so this isn't going to be easy.

[Bill]

Just wait a while.  The Mrs. will decide she liked the carpeting better; easier to vacuum and it "looked so nice, before."  Then you can think about pulling all those carpet tacks around the edges of the treads.

Bill; now, what color?

BTW, I've heard of moving a sister into an apartment, a new house, even into a retirement home but never into a library.
Bill

[Ace]

It may have "looked so nice before when they originally installed this faded worn cruddy rug 40 years ago" but not recently.  The foam underneath was mostly powder as it disintegrated.  

The carpet treads are "charcoal."  The wood is sorta like maple on the top group, but more oak like on the bottom.  The contrast should be lovely.  Removing the rug from the remaining 3 steps won't be.  I'm banged up from the move yesterday, and lost what feeling I had regained in my fingers.  It's supposed to be a day of rest, dangit.  I wish.  And with the stupid games yesterday with the stupid Patriots squeaking by and the stupid Bucs throwing away their game and now the Colts thinking "Huh.. those guys are still in it?" and that something wicked this way comes to Indy eventually I hope today's are better.  Pittsburgh, I wish.  For me and JA too.  And I really don't care a diddle about the first game except that Coughlin is such a charmer I love to see him get upset.

You know, I sit here and I wonder some days "Why can't I seem to get anything done..?"

ace; why Santa, why

[Bill]

I think the  Steeler's coach is a "charmer."  Coughlin is being hailed locally as a "leader" and what should be a model for the Jets' next coach.  I like the Vikings' ex for the Jets, minus the pencil on his ear.

When I turned off the Patriots game it was 28 to 3; squeaking by?

I just knew you'd have a whole new set of aches and pains today.  Geez, I'll be glad when you finish the steps.

Bill; if you don't start a project, you don't have to suffer.

[Ace]

Cowher is a spitter, mainly.  Coughlin may now be hailed as the first coach to be shutout in a playoof game at home, since 1980.  I bet that wasn't a pleasant locker room.

Mike Tice would be fine as your next area coach, as long as you have cruises available and he has plenty of tickets to scalp sorry sell.

Lou Holtz for Jets Coach.  He did so well the first time.  

Ace; maybe bring in Broadway Joe to run the offense.

[Bill]

Go Steelers!!!  Lookout Dolts!  You  got your wish! Bettis is the bestus.  

Bill

[Ace]

Geez Criminy, if you're gonna break a guy's knee to win then yeah...  I hope Peyton wears a flak jacket on his legs.

Bettis is no longer a bus.  He's a motorhome.  Heck, he's a double wide.  "He's 270 lbs."  Right; which leg...?

As an ex-Domer, he is an immovable force.  I believe the Colts will get past them again, although it will be far tougher than their Monday night game.  But the winner of the other one is gonna be heck on wheels coming into the Dome.

Hopefully, Troy Polamalu will let his hair grow out by the weekend.

Ace; and trip on it.

[Ace]

I saw that "Stiller game" reference and I was asking myself "Jerry Stiller..? Ben Stiller?"  Then I remembered the peculiar dialect of New Jersey.

I'm glad you're back from Dearborn.  I saw some clips from the Detroit Auto Show.  A Caddy Mustang, and a Mustang Mustang, and SUVs and new Camry in a year and hybrid vehicles that cost more than whatever gas cost you were going to save.  Glad they're right on top of things.

I hate driving Ohio, but I'd hate to drive the Ohio River too.  I wonder how long it would take The Bus to cross Ohio.  Probably a month, if he stopped to eat.

Ace; Steeler players should wear face shields with wipers, to use when talking to the coach.