My first Build!

[Carskick]

Hey all. Even though I have quite a bit of computer know how, both software and hardware, I've never actually built a whole system from scratch. Well, I think it's time. My mom Needs to replace her HP P2 with a newer computer that can run quick books enterprize, MS Office, etc. I went to new egg and made a system that could be a serious consideration. $500 is about the budget including the OS. Here's what I'm looking at:

 
CODEGEN Black/Silver ATX Mid-Tower Case with Front Panel USB 2.0 ports, Model "3307-CA" -RETAIL  
Item# N82E16811182518
$23.00

Samsung Black 52X32X52X16 DVD/CD-RW Combo Drive, Model TS-H492A/WBGH, OEM  
Item# N82E16827151051
$39.99

2
Vantec "ThermoFlow" Variable Speed 80mm Case Fan, Model "TF8025"  
Item# N82E16811999616
$13.98

Western Digital Special Edition 80GB 7200RPM IDE Hard Drive, Model WD800JB, OEM Drive Only  
Item# N82E16822144122
$61.99

OCZ Premier Series 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200 - Retail
Item# N82E16820146917
$90

ASUS "A7N8X-X" nForce2 400 Chipset Motherboard for AMD Socket A CPU -RETAIL  
Item# N82E16813131468
$61

AMD Athlon XP 2500+ "Barton", 333 FSB, 512K Cache Processor - Retail
Item# N82E16819103379
$92

Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition with Service Pack SP1a - OEM  
Item# N82E16837102141
$90

Product total:  $471.96
FedEx Standard Overnight FedEx 2Day FedEx Express Saver    Shipping & Handling:  $ 40.95  
Total (Before tax):  $ 512.91

How's it look? Any suggestions? I chose the RAM as OZC is suppose to be good RAM, and I got PC3200 in case of overclocking later.

There is no video card, as the P2 has a PCI PNY MX420 I put in a few years ago that we can use, which should be fine for what the system will be used for.

Another question, can I install that version of Windows XP on multiple computers? If I built this one, then built another one in a few months, could I use the same copy? That would justify getting this over the HP easily.

And do I need to buy IDE cables, or are they included with the motherboard, case, hard drive, or CD drive?

Please give me feedback. Thanks


Edit: I just realized That IDE cables come with the motherboard.

[query]

Do you have a power supply already?

You may want to have a look at a better case - cases in that price range usually are constructed of metal better suited to Gillette blades than use as computer cases.

[Carskick]

No, that case inludes a 300watt PSU. I chose it because some of the reviewers were saying that it had very good airflow and achieved low temperatures. Would the thin metal mean it being louder? I guess I'll keep looking, but I don't want to spend a bunch on the case, it's just a budget computer.

[query]

I would not rely on a $23 case with a 300W power supply - the case may be OK, but the PS is probably junk.  You cannot get a decent power supply for under about $50.

You can economize on the case (your fingers may not appreciate it, since economy cases aren't usually well finished) but I would not economize on the power supply, which can take down all sorts of other components if it fails).

[pat]

Have a look at some of the Antec cases, for a cost effective case they are hard to beat.

You can get the same memory from Crucial for the same price. Their lifetime warranty is top-notch.

You cannot install the same copy of WinXP on mutiple computers. You will have to buy a new copy for each machine.

If you go back to newegg and look at the pictures of your selected components you will get a pretty good idea of what comes with what. For instance that motherboard will come with one IDE cable and one floppy drive cable and a back IO plate plus a driver disk with perhaps an included AV program. Asus used to include a version of PC-cillin, they still may, but I?m not sure.
Generally retail drives will come with cable and screws and OEM will not, check the pictures. Also check your OEM CDRW drive, some come with bundled writing software and some do not.
Antec cases come with a very generous supply of extra screws.

[query]

Here's one good buy.
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?description=11-129-122&DEPA=0

[Carskick]

Thanks for the advice. The main problem with that case is that it probably won't be on sale when we actually get the computer, which could be in the next few days, or the next few months, but most likely before December. If it is imparitive I spend more on the case, then I can leave out the DVD/CDRW drive and just use the 8x4x32x CDRW and the 24x8x DVD drive, which are in the P2 right now, and just transfer them to the new machine. Otherwise, I would prefer to get a $40-50 case/PSU at the most. The PSU shouldn't be under much stain with this system anyways, so 300watts or more should be plentiful. Hey, my HPs managed with the 250 watt PSU, and I've Given it a much more power hungary video card. What cheap PSU brands have you had luck with?

I'll have to keep my eyes open on the Antec cases. I'm not a big fan of the hideaway drive system, but I'm not to picky about looks. More about airflow, PSU quality, and price.

It's ashame you have to buy a new version of XP for each computer. It seems like once you buy it, you should be able to use it on multiple machines. Oh well. That's why Gates is a billionare.

Anways, thanks for the advice Query and Pat. Keep it comming, and I'll continue to modify parts as I find em. Thanks!

[Carskick]

After browsing for a little while for cases, a question arose in my mind. Except for price and brand name, how does one identify a good PSU? I saw several of the cases had Sparkle PSUs. Any good?

After a google search, I found someone who did a test who concluded with this:

Total power ratings may actually be a very bad indicator of the quality of the supply. In my opinion,  we should look at the combined 3.3v/5v power ratings instead. These ratings are displayed on every ATX PSU. You can check for this by looking on the  amperage rating chart on the PSU. Somewhere on that chart it will tell the 3.3/5v combined power rating.

This test was for AMD systems BTW. What do you guys think of that info?

[Neon]

There is no substitute for quality construction in a power supply. What makes a good power supply? The quality and number of components inside - heatsinks, fans, transformers, shielding.

As the power requirements in modern PCs increases, the importance of adequate clean power also goes up.

The ATX models currently in use supply power on 3.3V, 5V, and 12V rails, and different system components depend on different voltages. For example, the drives run on 12V DC, the CPU takes the 3.3V line, the video card uses the 5V line. Thus, maximum rated output on each voltage line is important. Unfortunately, the combined rails maximum wattage is often the only number cited, and it gives only a vague notion of a PSU capability. On top of that, many of the manufacturers pad the statistics by reporting inaccurate wattages.

Read AnandTech's 4-way power supply roundup. It will definately open your eyes about what's going on inside those "black boxes". Anand also has a good follow-up Roundup part 2 with many more tested PSUs.

You asked about other brands, so look for one of these:
PC Power and Cooling
Delta
NMB
Sparkle/Forton-Source/powerman
Antec
Herolchi (HEC)
Enermax
ChannelWell Technology (CWT)/TurboLink

You listed 2 Vantec ThermoFlow fans. Note that these vary speed according to the temperature measured at the thermistor mounted on the leeward side of the fan hub. Therefore this fan should ideally be used in locations where it is blowing out, most typically when mounted on the rear of the case. The case you initially selected has only one rear fan mount, so choose a different front fan - or better yet, choose the Antec SLK3700AMB.

[scuzzy]

I concur on the power supply issue. Don't skimp in this area.

Here's some links that may help:

Buying a Power Supply

How Much Power Do You Need?

Choosing Power Supplies by Weight (from Directron)

Directron PS Units by Weight

[Chandler]

Nexus power supplies have been getting positive reviews, and they're not particularly expensive, in the UK at least (but I think they're European).

I had a poor quality PSU before and it let out so much RFI that my TV was unwatchable with the computer on - in fact it was so bad that the TV downstairs was affected.  With the new PSU I don't have any problems even with the TV right next to the PC.

[pat]

Here?s an interesting new power supply from Antec.
They have implemented a modular systems so you only need to attach the actual wiring you need for your system to help cut down on cable clutter.

Antec NeoPower

A couple of reviews.
Tom?s Hardware

Silent PC Review

[yokosi]

While on topic, do you guys think this case with ps is good for an amd athlon 2800+/Asus A7N8X-X

http://www.outcastcomputers.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idProduct=3688

thx

[query]

If the power supply is from Enermax, the chassis should be fine.  Check with the vendor - I've seen many advertise a brand-name case and put a no-name junk PS in it to keep the price down.

[Carskick]

Thanks for all the information guys! I'll let you know what I come up with based on this info, then you can give me input. I've been kind of out of the computer thing with hurricane Frances and all, but I will be back on track shortly. Again, thanks for all the info!

[Carskick]

I've got a question. Even though a brand is on the list above, does that mean it's better than another PSU with a similar wattage retting but with better other specs. For example, here are 2 I found

Enlight
v3.3+  12A
v5.5+  12A
--------------
180watts

v12+   15A   180watts

total 290watts


Powerman
+v3.3   20A
+v.5     25A
---------------
160watts

+12v   17A
235watts 3.3+.5+.12


The Enlight has higher watts, yet the Powerman has higher amps. Which would be better for a system such as I am looking at.

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=11-108-323&depa=1

Here is the Case w/ the Powerman PSU. What do you think?

[Carskick]

And also, just of curiousity, why is it necisarry to have so much power in a system such as this. I just looked at my HP's PSU, and it's ratings aren't quite as good as most of the others I'm looking at are, and it's worked fine with everything almost exactly the same as the new system will have, except the new system won't have as high end of a video card. People often say HPs are under powered, but I've had no problems with any HP PSUs, and I've never met anybody who has. (in person that I know of)

[Neon]

P=IV
Power = Current * Voltage
So multiply the current in amps by the voltage in volts, and you should get power in Watts. Unfortunately, many of the PSU vendors report these numbers rather inaccurately, so you need to take the numbers written on the side of the unit with a grain of salt. You will note that many of them don't even add up correctly.

The list of "good brands" above comes from the collective experiences of many people who have tested PSUs. Several of us have already explained why it is important to have a good power supply - power requirements in new systems keep going up. If you insist on a $10 PSU, hey, we warned you. Just don't get a Deer.

HP no doubt carefully specs its PSUs for the systems they sell, but remember that most people that buy those type of OEM systems never upgrade them, so there is no need to include a PSU that can handle much more than the factory configuration (anything else wouldn't be under warranty anyway).

[Carskick]

I guess for now I'll plan on the powerman Case/PSU setup. I like the case, and the PSU seems to have good ratings, And Powerman is on the recommended PSU list.

I guess here are the two I am looking at

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=11-190-009&depa=0&manufactory=BROWSE

and

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=11-108-323&depa=0&manufactory=BROWSE

Which would you reccomend?

Thanks for the help all and please let me know if you think of anything else about anything.

[query]

Spend the extra $20 and get the Antec case.  Your fingers will thank you.

[scuzzy]

Looks more of a personal choice issue, but of the two choices I favor the Athenatech (for no particular reason).

You obviously have a tight budget to work with, so my best suggestion is for you to get what you are able to afford in such a manner as to allow for future upgrades as needed. While you're at it, don't forget to check the classified for good deals in your area.

When you're done, make sure you poast pictures of your final product. :)

[scuzzy]

Spend the extra $20 and get the Antec case.  Your fingers will thank you.

I have to agree. Antec cases are excellent values. Their construction is top-notch for the price range.

[Carskick]

I looked at the Antecs, but I'm not a big fan of the looks of them, esspecially the doored CD drives. The cases I'm looking at can't be much worse as far as build quality than the HPs I'm used to working in. This is also more of a system I will build, and hopefully never have to go in again. Even this is overkill for what the system will be used for. Also, if I can't make this cheap enough, dear old Mom will just say forget it and go buy whatever is on sale at Best Buy, and I can't have that.

[pat]

Have you looked at any of the Small Form Factor boxes?
They come partially assembled, case and motherboard. Most come with on-board sound and video. Just add a processor, hard drive, an optical drive and an OS.
Chandler built one eairlier this year with a Biostar, see this thread.
There are quite a few to look at; newegg.

[query]

If you want something more stylish than Antec's cases (most of which are Chieftec cases), look through Directron.com - they have a lot of other Chieftec units.

Most of HPs cases are made by Fong Kai - which also sells some under its own name.

[Carskick]

Hmm. I looked at a few slot A ones on NewEgg, and I think they'd ent up costing more than a mid sized ATX system. Also, even though I didn't mention it, we need a few PCI slots, one for a WI-FI card, possibly 56K, and my video card. Size isn't a big annoyance.

[pat]

Okay, I just thought I?d throw that out there.

[Carskick]

Thanks for the suggestion though, Pat. They seem like a good idea for someone who needs a portable desktop or has very little space, but we've got plenty.

[Carskick]

Okay, I've done some more research on NewEgg, and Here is the latest system. I actually decided to get a basic case w/o a PSU then buy a PSU from the recommended list. Here it is:

Linkworld Beige/Blue Midi ATX CASE, Model "B313C02N - P4" -RETAIL  
Item# N82E16811164039
$14.50


2
KINGWIN 80mm Ball Bearing Case Fan, Model "F-01B-4PIN" -RETAIL  
Item# N82E16811999964
$4.58

Western Digital Special Edition 80GB 7200RPM IDE Hard Drive, Model WD800JB, OEM Drive Only  
Item# N82E16822144122
$61.99

Crucial 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200 8T - OEM
Item# N82E16820146541
$85.00

BIOSTAR "M7NCD PRO" nForce2 Ultra 400 Chipset Motherboard for AMD Socket A CPU -RETAIL  
Item# N82E16813138227
$55.00

FortronSource P4 300W Power Supply with 120 MM Fan, Model "FSP300-60PN" -RETAIL  
Item# N82E16817104937
$26.50

AMD Athlon XP 2600+ "Barton", 333MHz FSB, 512K Cache Processor - Retail
Item# N82E16819103418
$94.00

Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition with Service Pack SP1a - OEM  
Item# N82E16837102141
$87.00

________________________________
Parts: $429.57
S/H: $33.97  
Total: $ 463.54

We've decided to just use the HP 9100 Series out of the P2, which is a 8x4x32x drive in the new computer, as burning CDs very fast isn't that important. Anyways, give me feedback on the latest build. Hopefully we can get this show on the road shortly. My Mom likes the lower price. ;)

[pat]

Well good luck with the build.
I wonder if they include any screws and motherboard standoffs with that case. The pictures don?t show any and newegg is usually pretty good at showing everything that comes with the item. The motherboard will come with no screws or standoffs.