Author Topic: Ace's Done Deal  (Read 14689 times)

Offline Carskick

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Re:Shop for me
« Reply #60 on: Jul 11, 2006, 08:29 PM »
Ok, I read that too.  Man, it's like everyone has an opinion about Antivirals.  

I can get an AMD 64 3800+ for @$140... should I do it now or wait to see if the double cores drop?  Will single cores drop, too, lower than that...?  Oh, the suspense.

Ace; I'm chompin' at the bit, here.

I doubt the single cores will drop much more. When the Athlon XP was at it's peak, the 2600+ T-Bred B, which I watched, bottomed out just under $100. I think single cores are a great deal right now. You can get 2 single core 3800+ for the price of one dual core 3800+. This confuses me.

However, the single core athlon 64s are by no means slow. In fact, since you are a gammer, Ace, a single core A64 may be the better bet, at least for the money. Take the $160 you save, and put it towards your RAM or graphics card fund.
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Offline Ace

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Re:Shop for me
« Reply #61 on: Jul 12, 2006, 04:31 AM »
Thanks Cars.  That's what I was beginning to think, that there is a basic bottom line cost point that they're not gonna go under.  It's all based on Neon's or Notredamus' or whoever predicted the double cores would drop in a couple week due to Intel's 2-piece market flood.  So an X2 might hit $170 or so by end of month.

Probably I will go ahead before then; I'm figuring if it ever matters or becomes attractive I could pop in a dual core later (wouldn't cause any great distress if I did, I assume...?) and add another video card to use the SLI configuration if a 7600GT got down to $50 or so in a couple years.  I know that in shopping for an AMD XP 2200 or 2400 (if I wanted or needed to swap out my socket A 1800+) that they remain pricey, in comparison to new stuff.

I did price and list everything through new egg; they're always pretty much a match with Monarch.  

Ace; maybe my old one is fighting me because it knows I'm trying to get rid of it... like a car senses when you're about to trade it in.
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Offline Neon

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Re:Shop for me
« Reply #62 on: Jul 12, 2006, 06:40 AM »
Ace, to my knowledge, AMD price cuts on X2 processors are still scheduled for July 24. The X2 3800+ is supposed to be $169, and there is now a rumor that a x2 3600+ may be offered, but I haven't seen availability/pricing.

They already had a big price drop on the single cores last month, so there won't be additional big drops soon.

Prices generally start high, then drop stepwise as faster models get added to the lineup, or as market conditions otherwise dictate. As Cars said, the prices eventually reach a plateau, and don't change much until the product goes end of life.
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Offline Ace

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Re:Shop for me
« Reply #63 on: Jul 12, 2006, 06:57 AM »
Would you pop an extra $69 (if that what it gets to, which I know is an if) for an X2 3800 over a regular old 3800?  Would converting later to a dual from a single require any BIOS tweaks or other reactions?  

Really, I don't do two things at once, on a computer.. so it's not like I'd need to burn a disk while playing a game or jump across software.  

I would go with a 3800 single over a 3600 double...

Ace; or a 32 caliber once I can afford it.
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Offline scuzzy

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Re:Shop for me
« Reply #64 on: Jul 12, 2006, 09:10 AM »
Well, here's my advice for the day...

Try not to order one piece at a time. Make a list of the parts you want, and what you're willing to pay. Run the list through us for advice, if you wish. Make final adjustments if necessary, then order all at once from NewEgg/NuevosHuevos.

By ordering all items at one time, you may save several dollars in shipping costs.

The rule of thumb is to buy the newest technology that you can afford. The single core AMD will likely work great for you, but you never know what game will come along that will truly take advantage of a dual core CPU. Altough you could upgade to dual core later, it will likely end up costing more than if you had purchased dual core in the first place. Again, that's for you to decide.

I like your choice of the 7600GT - I will hopefully upgrade my main system to that card before too long.

ASUS makes pretty good boards, but ASUS doesn't have the friendliest web site for downloads and updates. Everytime I hassle with their site (such as last night where I ONCE AGAIN couldn't get what I wanted) I tell myself that I'll never buy another ASUS.

If a great gaming machine is your goal, then consider dual core, dual video cards, RAID 0,  and low latency RAM. Of course, we're talking more funds.

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Offline scuzzy

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Re:Shop for me
« Reply #65 on: Jul 12, 2006, 09:18 AM »
BTW: You can window shop at NuevosHuevos, then save the items to the Wish List. Once they are saved, check "Share" so that the list can be viewed by public. It takes a little time, but once it's published for public view you can share the link with us.

For example: Ace's Computer

What's nice is that once your list is complete, you can make the purchase all at once.
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Offline Ace

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Re:Shop for me
« Reply #66 on: Jul 12, 2006, 10:03 AM »
A dual core is in no way inferior (slower, less capable...) than a single core on any task not requiring 2 cores, is they?

I did the wish list; didn't really want to stuff things in the cart.  I hate it when someone leaves one by my car...

I wouldn't piece together parts, one at a time... I'll get the whole shebang at once.  My appreciation for Monarch is the same stuff well put together at like cost and being able to bug tech help 4 years later like I am now about the DVD/CD player lack of responsiveness (like I had with the motherboard in its deathbed, as I got advice on how to proceed with that and the error messages...).  

Shoot, if they weren't in Georgia I'd dump the thing on their doorstep and have them mess with it...

Ace; they're probably glad I'm where I'm at.

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Offline Carskick

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Re:Shop for me
« Reply #67 on: Jul 12, 2006, 10:13 AM »
A dual core is in no way inferior (slower, less capable...) than a single core on any task not requiring 2 cores, is they?

This should help

Application: Doesn't utalize dual core

Athlon64 3200+          Athlon X2 3800+
2ghz                            2ghz
512kb Cache               512kb Cache x 2  
$100                           $300

Nearly identical performance


Athlon64 3800+          Athlon X2 3800+
2.4Ghz                        2.0Ghz
1MB Cache                  512kb Cache x 2
$150                           $300

The Athlon64 3800+ will perform much better



As you can see, if you go by clock speed and cache, the dual and single cores will perform very similarly. If you go by model number, the single core will perform much better. This all changes when dual core is utalized, which is what you are paying extra for.
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Offline Neon

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Re:Shop for me
« Reply #68 on: Jul 12, 2006, 10:15 AM »
It's not possible to give a yes/no, because it depends on the application(s), and how you use your system. Some applications benefit only with faster CPU frequency, so a 3800+ at 2.4 GHz will beat a X2 3800+ at 2.0 GHz. Some applications/games are multithreaded, and can immediately take advantage of two processing cores. Don't forget that dual cores help with multitasking, as well.
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Offline Ace

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Re:Shop for me
« Reply #69 on: Jul 12, 2006, 12:07 PM »
Alright; that makes sense.  Thanks for arguing Cars and Neon.  (but please, no more Neon Cars for me...).  I thought you mentioned something about frequency difference Ne previously, but I didn't catch what you were referring to.  Thanks Cars for laying out the comparison.

From what I understand then, I should wait for the triple core to arrive.  

Or maybe a no core... An AMD AM2 Donut Processor.  Maybe use the code name "Krispy Kreme."

Ace; I don't multi task.  Ever.  Remember, I sat through a weekend just watching it beep 3 times; over and over.

« Last Edit: Jul 12, 2006, 01:05 PM by Ace »
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Offline Buffalo2102

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Re:Shop for me
« Reply #70 on: Jul 12, 2006, 01:35 PM »
Ah, but you can't watch something beep, surely?  Therefore, you must have been watching and listening - multitasking!

Buff; clever.
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Offline Ace

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Re:Shop for me
« Reply #71 on: Jul 12, 2006, 01:44 PM »
No, I watched.  I stared wide eyed in wonder with a blank expression, and watched it.  I watched it and watched it over and over and sprayed the sticks and  slot and waited and vacuumed and pulled the battery and the ATX plug and watched and waited and watched it.  Repeatedly.

Insanity is doing the same thing the same way over and over again, and expecting different results

I didn't even hear the "beeps" after awhile.  I felt them course through the core of my being.

Heh... "my core."  "I wonder if I'm a dual core or a single core!"  hee hee...  

Ace; nuts.
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Offline Buffalo2102

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Re:Shop for me
« Reply #72 on: Jul 12, 2006, 01:50 PM »
No, nuts don't have cores - apples do.

Buff; fruit!
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Offline Carskick

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Re:Shop for me
« Reply #73 on: Jul 12, 2006, 02:06 PM »
It's not possible to give a yes/no, because it depends on the application(s), and how you use your system. Some applications benefit only with faster CPU frequency, so a 3800+ at 2.4 GHz will beat a X2 3800+ at 2.0 GHz. Some applications/games are multithreaded, and can immediately take advantage of two processing cores. Don't forget that dual cores help with multitasking, as well.

Right, I was refering to program performance on programs that Do NOT take advantage of dual core, as Ace asked.

As Neon stated, if you use 2 programs simutaneously (I think I spelled it right) that do not use dual core, than they SHOULD each be assigned to a different core, and performance should increace. However, comparing solely one single-threaded task on a dual core vs single core, the single core will have better performance, but if they have similar specs, dual core will not hurt.
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Offline Ace

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Re:Shop for me
« Reply #74 on: Jul 12, 2006, 02:07 PM »
Ok, look, I haven't been referred to as "fruit" since Bill called me something like that awhile back...  dangit.

And if I was fruit, I'd like to be the one next to Angelina in that phoato.

You know, instead of beeps motherboards ought to have like a whoopee cushion sound or siren or belch when they don't feel like working anymore...  It'd be more in line with their general anti-social attitude.

Ace; I used to be fun on date.
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Offline Carskick

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Re:Shop for me
« Reply #75 on: Jul 12, 2006, 02:08 PM »
or a wa--wa--wawawawawa
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Offline Ace

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Re:Shop for me
« Reply #76 on: Jul 12, 2006, 02:52 PM »
Shoot Cars, I don't know what a wa wa waa wawawawa whatever is...   I used to own a wah wah pedal, but not anymore.  It sounds like Charlie Brown's parents at dinner.

Anyway, thanks again for digging through the single/dual core performance stuff.  I think for me I'd be best off with a fast single than a dual, since it's way future tense as far as anything really going there and I'm not going to be doing any juggling where I've got more than 1 thing going at once.

Ace; if that.  
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Offline scuzzy

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Re:Shop for me
« Reply #77 on: Jul 12, 2006, 03:34 PM »
I am going to pressure you into installing a software firewall anyway. All firewalls initially tend to be pests about what is okay and what isn't. Initially, any good firewall will block access to EVERYTHING until you tell it it's okay. No big deal - just a little bit of training. Within a few days the blocked access warnings will slow down and you'll have a system solidly protected from hacks.

As already mentioned, WinXP's firewall only monitors incoming traffic, not outbound. If a hacker tries to get in, XP's firewall kicks in to prevent it. If a program or aplet installs itself on your HDD, XP's firewall will do nothing to keep the crapware from sending information out. That's why a two-way firewall is important.

I've really gotten to like Comodo 2. I only installed it on my laptop, but I like it enough to replace ZoneAlarm on the rest of my systems. ZoneAlarm is a very effective firewall, but I'm sick of its enormous bloat.

Here's a write up by PC Magazine: Comodo 2 Firewall
« Last Edit: Jul 12, 2006, 03:36 PM by scuzzy »
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Offline Ace

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Re:Shop for me
« Reply #78 on: Jul 12, 2006, 03:40 PM »
Well, then YOU be the one to tell my Security Center it's been turned off.  Criminy, can that thing nag.

I've had about all the dang training I can stand, this month.  I'm currently awaiting a response from Lite-On to see if there's firmware or drivers that would relate to my DVD unit which does not appear on their list of firmware and drivers available... Sigh.  Phonetically, that's wawawawawawawawawwaa.

Ace; maybe a hacker could get in and fix this dang thing...
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Offline pat

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Re:Shop for me
« Reply #79 on: Jul 12, 2006, 05:35 PM »
I wonder what motherboard you plan on sticking that processor on? I?ve been going over the list of possibilities myself the last few days.

If money were no object, I think I would go with the Gigabyte GA-M59SLI-S5 that board sure has a lot to offer, but at $199 is a little more than I want to spend. The down side, as I see it, is that it will require new hard drives as there is only one IDE connection and I would use that for my DVD/RWs.

On the other hand I like the Gigabyte GA-M55SLI-S4. It uses the nForce 4 chipset so it still offers 2 IDE channels and I could use a couple of my PATA drives and add a couple of SATA drives down the road, it costs about half of the M59, and has all of the features I really need. It doesn?t have the newer nvidia chipset, but I?m not exactly sure that is necessary.

I also like the Asus M2N-SLI and the ABIT KN9 SLI but again, both of those will require new drives, there is also the ASUS M2V that uses the VIA K8T890. It has 2 IDE channels, but skimps on other features.

I?d still like to see what is yet to come out with the ATI chipset as the reviews I?ve read with the reference board seem good. I?m not in a big hurry so I may just wait and see.
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Offline Ace

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Re:Shop for me
« Reply #80 on: Jul 13, 2006, 04:38 AM »
The Asus M2N-SLI.  Probably a Seagate 250 SATA3, or a Western Digital 250 gig hd.

Ace; and a firewall, or at least a nice fence.
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Offline pat

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Re:Shop for me
« Reply #81 on: Jul 13, 2006, 04:54 AM »
Ok, nice choice.

pat: Good fences make good neighbors.
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Offline Ace

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Re:Shop for me
« Reply #82 on: Jul 13, 2006, 08:52 AM »
If I go Monarch it's that one or the wireless version (no) or an MSI...  

As the new owner of an old Asus I guess I should continue to be brand-loyal...  Although getting the pop-up "do you want to install Chinese to read this page correctly" isn't my preference...   Contacting Gigabyte or Lite-ON I want to say "hey, don't these guys know I'm American..?!  And we have enough trouble with English."

Ace; I do want to, but I figure they could care less.
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Offline Neon

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Re:YOUguysdoalltheworkandshopandthenI'llbuyit dangit
« Reply #83 on: Jul 17, 2006, 10:00 PM »
For your informatronation, AMD has announced official pricing for bulk tray purchases. The prices are effective 24 July, as previously rumored. Note that these prices are for bulk purchases, so add ~$20-30 to get approximate retail pricing.

Bulk prices 7/24:

Athlon 64 3800+ (AM2) $109
Athlon 64 X2 3800+ (AM2) $149
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Offline Ace

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Re:YOUguysdoalltheworkandshopandthenI'llbuyit dangit
« Reply #84 on: Jul 18, 2006, 04:26 AM »
Thanks for the update; I was checking news to that effect.  Right now I can get the 3800+ single at $145, so that might go down a couple bucks...  If a dual core is $20 or 30 more or so that might make one appealing.  The motherboard dropped about $10 this last week.

Now, having read through the comparison as provided, IF a 3800+ is at 2.4 ghz and the 3800+ X2 is ALSO at 2.4 ghz then would the dual core perform as well/identically even at a single function...?  'Cause it seemed the single core benefit would be if it ran hotter and was only doing one thing.  

I ordered a USB keyboard and mouse; it is weird that there are NONE to be found retail.  Just either regular port or cordless...  I've got a USB hub and like that as a connect.  

Ace; I hate to wait, and I hate to rush.
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Offline Neon

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Re:YOUguysdoalltheworkandshopandthenI'llbuyit dangit
« Reply #85 on: Jul 18, 2006, 06:52 AM »
Ace,

In your hypothetical comparison, with all cores at the same frequency, the X2 dual core processor should process faster than the single core processor. Each core has 512 KB L2 cache memory, so the X2 has (2x 512KB)=1024KB L2, but the single core has only 512KB L2.

Essentially, you are comparing the 3800+ to the X2 4600+, which both run at 2.4 GHz.

What mouse/keyboard did you choose?
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Offline Ace

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Re:YOUguysdoalltheworkandshopandthenI'llbuyit dangit
« Reply #86 on: Jul 18, 2006, 07:12 AM »
Ok; what I was looking at was the Monarch Furia 2 configurator and it pulled up the specs for a 3800+ X2 that stated 2.4, same as the single core...  I just looked at the 4200 and 4600 and they're on track with what you said.  Now that 3800+ X2 no longer has the pop up detail box.

So; I'm thinking that a 3800+ single isn't going to go much below $145 next week.. I'd "need" to move up to a 4something X2 to get the 3800+'s speed.  So that would be still a chunk more.  At that rate, I'll stick with a 3800+ as the choice.  So go ahead now or see what Monday brings...? Ok, I just figured if I wait a week and save 10-20 bucks, that puts me a week behind too, so ordering it now would be like "express shipping" even with a slight price drop.  

I ordered a Logitech Media Elite keyboard and the plain black laser mouse, both USB. The ones I have now are dependable, and I don't want to do a wireless on the new table set up.  

Fans will be relieved to know I have KEPT my faux Scandinavian 3 level computer desk; it moved down the wall a few feet and shall hold my Canon printer and my Canon printer.  And probably a load of other stuff I slap on it for lack of having the motivation to put it away...  This, in addition to the new computer desk and my regular old desk desk.  

Ace "3 Desks" Jackson
« Last Edit: Jul 18, 2006, 08:39 AM by Ace »
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Offline scuzzy

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Re:YOUguysdoalltheworkandshopandthenI'llbuyit dangit
« Reply #87 on: Jul 18, 2006, 11:25 AM »
Your hypodermal comparisons are confusing me. Just pick a dang processor already. You?re gonna hose it up anyway. Don't worry about the prices, since they are volatile and subject to spontaneous eruptions and explosions. Sort of like you.

Get what you want right now. If you have to pay a little more, then go for it anyway. The fact is that you probably will not upgrade the CPU at a later date so long as keeps working properly - which it almost certainly will. You're not gonna want to spend $100+ on your antiquated system in 3 or 4 years, so "future proof" it as much as you can today.

The same advice goes for the video card. Just get what makes you happy now. I think the 7600GT is an excellent choice that should earn its keep for a long time. If you buy a motherboard in which can add a second card later, then that sounds like a good deal.

If I were building a system for myself today, I'd probably look at the Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Windsor ($297) or the Athlon 64 X2 4000+ Windsor ($357). I'm sure the X2 3800+ is no slouch, and it will likely give great performance for future games. If you can swing the extra bucks, then be the first on your block to get a 4000+ butt kicker.

I just noticed that HuevosNuevos is doing away with its OEM lineup for AMD. I wonder what that's about. I preferred the OEM versions since they were usually easier on the walrus. I mean wallet.

The odd thing is that AMD voids the retail CPU warranty if you use a better HSF than its anemic offering. I can hear it now, "We're sorry, but we cannot honor the warranty on our defective CPU because you used a far superior HSF compared to our well-known anemic offering. Had you used our cheap, worthless, noisy HSF, made of plastic and recycled crud, the CPU would have lasted only 1 month. However, since you paid good money (as opposed to bad money) for a far better HSF, the CPU lasted almost 3 years. As we see it, you got over so stop yer whining already."

And build your own dang system, dang it. You can do it and you'll be better off. If you have too many heartaches, just send the computer and new monitor to me at your expense. I'll fix it and keep it for myself.
« Last Edit: Jul 18, 2006, 12:33 PM by scuzzy »
Antec Performance TX640B Case | WinXP Pro SP3 & Win7 64-bit | Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R | Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 Wolfdale LGA 775 3.16GHz Dual-Core | 8GB (4x2GB) PC6400 G-Skill RAM | eVGA 7600GT 256MB PCI-E | 74GB WD Raptor SATA 16MB Cache | 74GB WD Raptor SATA 8MB Cache | 320GB Seagate Barracuda SATA 16MB Cache | External 640GB WD Caviar SATA 32MB Cache | Sony DRU-V200S DVD/RW | PC Power & Cooling Silencer 500W | Samsung SyncMaster 2494 (24") LCD Monitor | LG Flatron W2361V (23") LCD Monitor

Offline Ace

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Re:YOUguysdoalltheworkandshopandthenI'llbuyit dangit
« Reply #88 on: Jul 18, 2006, 12:35 PM »
Just remember, when we stepped in it was to "Send in The Clowns" not "Send in The Suckers...".   I can't wait till you ask to borrow my new pc for the weekend.

Alright then, to appease you and Brad I'll go ahead and get the stuff.  I am going to go with the 3800+ single carb processor.  I do not want to step up to a higher number for the same clock speed just to have two of them sitting on each other.  I'd rather have 1 fast one than 2 lesser beings.

I did stop and pick up (yes; I actually paid for them) an Altec Lansing 3 piece speaker system.  BB had it on sale, plus I had a $10 local gift card.  I thought about going with a 5.1 or something more spread out but this appears to be higher quality and less footprint.  I've got Altecs now and they've been good.

I'll have all the peripherals in a short while, and just need a computer in the middle of them... I got a new Belkin surge plugger and a USB port, too.  I'm going to pack up every piece of the old for relative use.

Just a prediction; in a week or 2 when I get around to having it operational and install Call of Duty and I finally start to play it, again, and I get a crash and a blue screen and a Windows "Would you like us to send in this report, so we won't tell you what it means?" message you will hear the scream all the way to Colorado.  

At which point I shall chomp down on my Memtest floppy and watch my eyes roll to see if my memory is still functioning.

Once I confirm the final configuration I shall pose a summary statement of "well, you guys chose this."  Ironically, I've pretty much matched somebody's advice on every piece of the box.  And it's quite different from how I started envisioning it.

Ace; I am getting two DVD units and, no, you can't have one of them.
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Offline scuzzy

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Re:YOUguysdoalltheworkandshopandthenI'llbuyit dangit
« Reply #89 on: Jul 18, 2006, 01:04 PM »
Here's a deal that I will not allow you to refuse.

Order all the parts at your expense and have them sent to my house. I will assemble everything for a mere $50 and I will test the system for 3 years. At the end of the test period I will mail the completed build to your house, at your expense.

I will fully and unquestionably warrant the system for 90 days from the date I receive the parts.

Scuzzy; I just can't go wrong with this deal
« Last Edit: Jul 18, 2006, 01:37 PM by scuzzy »
Antec Performance TX640B Case | WinXP Pro SP3 & Win7 64-bit | Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R | Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 Wolfdale LGA 775 3.16GHz Dual-Core | 8GB (4x2GB) PC6400 G-Skill RAM | eVGA 7600GT 256MB PCI-E | 74GB WD Raptor SATA 16MB Cache | 74GB WD Raptor SATA 8MB Cache | 320GB Seagate Barracuda SATA 16MB Cache | External 640GB WD Caviar SATA 32MB Cache | Sony DRU-V200S DVD/RW | PC Power & Cooling Silencer 500W | Samsung SyncMaster 2494 (24") LCD Monitor | LG Flatron W2361V (23") LCD Monitor