Author Topic: Need Advice on Wireless Networking  (Read 1758 times)

Offline Whizbang

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Need Advice on Wireless Networking
« on: Apr 04, 2005, 02:01 PM »
On May 1, I plan to switch over to Valor business DSL.  It is supposed to be over twice as fast as Direcway satellite without the gross latency problems of satellite at about half the price.  My question is, "How great a distance can I transmit with a wireless networking device?  I need to be able to transmit 200 feet.  Would that require some hardware that would need to be licensed?  That would scrub that idea.  Or, is it even feasible.  My daughter needs an Internet connection, and she simply cannot afford it right now.  I did not receive any flak from the tech when I told him about tapping her in to the connection, but I have no idea what I am looking at here.

Offline Bill

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Re:Need Advice on Wireless Networking
« Reply #1 on: Apr 04, 2005, 02:42 PM »
Whiz,
I don't have an answer on the 200 feet issue but maybe another approach.
How about locating the wireless base closer to the other house, increasing the distance to your stuff and decreasing to hers?
One of our local downtown stores just created a free "hot spot" in the village green that is way over 200 ft.  Maybe there is a "commerical" grade base?

Bill
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Offline query

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Re:Need Advice on Wireless Networking
« Reply #2 on: Apr 04, 2005, 02:54 PM »
Best bet is to try and see what happens.  There are ways to boost power, and there are better antennas.  If you're looking for that kind of range, look for an access point with an external antenna jack - but don't expect to be able to find these for the $50 or so that consumer-grade versions cost.

A good antenna will run you about $100 and the access point, twice or more what a standard one will run.


Offline Whizbang

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Re:Need Advice on Wireless Networking
« Reply #3 on: Apr 04, 2005, 03:09 PM »
I suppose that an email to a tech dept. of someone like D-Link might help.

Offline query

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Re:Need Advice on Wireless Networking
« Reply #4 on: Apr 04, 2005, 03:47 PM »
The Cisco Aironet 1200 series has very good range - if you're looking for that.  It is not bargain priced, however.


Offline Whizbang

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Re:Need Advice on Wireless Networking
« Reply #5 on: Apr 04, 2005, 04:36 PM »
Ouch!  That is a bit more bite than I can go.  Actually, it would pay for itself in about a year though.  I do think I will contact them.  Thanks.  :)

Offline Carskick

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Re:Need Advice on Wireless Networking
« Reply #6 on: Apr 04, 2005, 08:50 PM »
can you run a CAT 5 cable underground?
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Offline Whizbang

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Re:Need Advice on Wireless Networking
« Reply #7 on: Apr 04, 2005, 09:01 PM »
can you run a CAT 5 cable underground?
I had considered it.  I probably would run it through a polybutylene water pipe.  I don't know about the adapter setup, but I am guessing that it would not be a problem.

Offline Whizbang

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Re:Need Advice on Wireless Networking
« Reply #8 on: Apr 05, 2005, 10:34 AM »
I emailed D-Link, and this is the very thorough answer.  I give them A+.

------------------------------------------------------------------
"Our routers can go up to 328ft clear line of sight, if you are trying to connect 2 buildings together you need to bridge. You can use a DI-624 as your router than connect a DWL-2100AP w/ANT24-0801 into the router in Point-to-Point Bridge Mode, have the antenna pointing back at the other ANT24-0801 w/DWL-2100AP in  Point-to-Point Bridge Mode. Have the 2nd DWL-2100AP hard wired back into the other PC or into a switch that will connect to other PC's."


DWL-2100AP w/ANT24-0801)))))))))) Point-to-Point Bridge Mode(((((((((((((((ANT24-0801 w/DWL-2100AP

Thank You,

Robert C. Garcia
Channel Sales Representative
1-800-326-1688 ext. 6032
Fax: 866-743-4664
rgarcia@dlink.com
www.dlink.com

Offline Whizbang

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Re:Need Advice on Wireless Networking
« Reply #9 on: Apr 05, 2005, 12:09 PM »
 That price is way above budget.

The best way seems to be to go the CAT 5 cable with ethernet adapter.  Valor has sent me the router/modem, but there is only one ethernet connection.  There is an optional USB port, but I would be running three computers, two of them close-networked and then my daughter's computer with mainly Internet connection shared.  I am also guessing that I will need to abandon the Valor router/modem and get a 3-port router/modem.  Actually, the unit is technically just a router.  The setup is virtually identical to my presently-used router; both are Speedstreams.  

I did confirm that the USB port can serve as a second independent connection to another computer, so I do have two viable connections with a third needed.   At least with the external router connections, neither one of my computers would need to feed her unit with a wireless hookup.

There is no way to implement the two port router that I already had as a splitter to give me three ports without router address conflict, is there?  
----------------------------

Another possibility would be to use two Siemens indoor antennas.  They cost less than $30.00 each.  each could be mounted in facing windows.  The ones I looked at are directional, but that still requires three port router.  The only difference here is that I could use a wireless PCI pickup card in her computer.
« Last Edit: Apr 05, 2005, 02:05 PM by Whizbang »

Offline Igloo

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Re:Need Advice on Wireless Networking
« Reply #10 on: Apr 05, 2005, 01:03 PM »
or run the cat 5 cable, with a belkin router, if the cable is > 100m then you will need a small cat signal booster thingy (dont know the corret name) to prevent data corruption.

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Offline Whizbang

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Re:Need Advice on Wireless Networking
« Reply #11 on: Apr 05, 2005, 05:12 PM »
The first problem I have is that Valor uses a standard phone RJ-11 connection for the DSL input.  I have not found another router on line that uses a standard phone plug input for DSL with ethernet RJ-45 outputs.  This may require a talk with a Valor tech.

Offline Igloo

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Re:Need Advice on Wireless Networking
« Reply #12 on: Apr 06, 2005, 03:54 AM »
belkin f5d7630-4a

sould be what ur looking for Whizbang,

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Offline Bill

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Re:Need Advice on Wireless Networking
« Reply #13 on: Apr 06, 2005, 05:54 AM »
Whiz-
Here's a link for the belkin with prices:
http://tinyurl.com/4yjbc
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Offline Whizbang

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Re:Need Advice on Wireless Networking
« Reply #14 on: Apr 06, 2005, 01:36 PM »
Ok, wipe the slate clean.  This is what I will have to do:

I cannot bury a cable because there are far too many tree roots between the two points.  

1)   I will need to purchase an RJ-11 male to RJ-45 female adapter.  These are rare, but I did find a couple of sources.  For some reason, Valor uses the standard RJ-11 phone jack to couple DSL.  All of the "normal" routers use an RJ-45 ethernet plug.  This weird Valor-supplied router has an RJ-11 connection, but it also does not have but two ports, one being a USB port and the other an RJ-45 Ethernet port.  I cannot use that router.

2)  I will need to purchase a 4-port wired DSL/ethernet router.  I will use two of the ports to connect to my computers and one of the other two to rig to my daughter's computer.  This is the point where I venture into uncharted territory and need help.
     A)  Can I connect an antenna directly to one of the two available ports, or do I need to run the signal
           through a gateway first?
     B)   I will need to install an antenna at her house also and connect it to a gateway (I guess)  that connects to the onboard LAN jack of her computer.   ???

Router-->gateway-->antenna ))))))    ((((antenna-->gateway-->LAN

The antennas I was looking at are directional and could be placed in facing windows for maximum signal transmission/reception.

Can I use the onboard LAN as her point of entry, or do I need to use a PCI card?

Siemens has an indoor directional antenna for less than $30.00.  I will need to cover no more than 240 feet in direct-line-of-sight.

This is not just an idea I am toying with.  I am convinced that it is what I will need to do unless a big change occurs.  My daughter cannot afford an Internet connection right now because she is off work and having to endure chemo therapy.  The news here is good because it is over 90% effective for her type of case.  It still is cancer, but we are relieved by the prognosis.
« Last Edit: Apr 06, 2005, 05:45 PM by Whizbang »

Offline Whizbang

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Re:Need Advice on Wireless Networking
« Reply #15 on: Apr 08, 2005, 04:59 PM »
I was in Kmart today and saw a Linksys combination 4-port wired and one port wireless router that is exactly what I need.  I can tap into my two computers directly and then connect my daughter's unit via the wireless router/transmitter and a directional antenna to her unit.  This would be a lot more fun if money were not involved.

Offline Carskick

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Re:Need Advice on Wireless Networking
« Reply #16 on: Apr 08, 2005, 06:11 PM »
I was in Kmart today and saw a Linksys combination 4-port wired and one port wireless router that is exactly what I need.  I can tap into my two computers directly and then connect my daughter's unit via the wireless router/transmitter and a directional antenna to her unit.  This would be a lot more fun if money were not involved.

I think that's true with everything. In my digital camera search, I found the perfect camera for me for $500, but I only want to spend $250. Oh the fun I could have with a little more money. I thought $250-300 would get me the perfect camera, but it only gets me close.
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Offline Bill

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Re:Need Advice on Wireless Networking
« Reply #17 on: Apr 08, 2005, 07:30 PM »
Whiz,

All other things aside for a moment, I am sorry to hear about your daughter's illness.  I hope the prognosis is positive.

Bill
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Offline Whizbang

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Re:Need Advice on Wireless Networking
« Reply #18 on: Apr 09, 2005, 06:02 AM »
Whiz,

All other things aside for a moment, I am sorry to hear about your daughter's illness.  I hope the prognosis is positive.

Bill
Appreciated, and looking up.   :)

Offline Whizbang

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Re:Need Advice on Wireless Networking
« Reply #19 on: Apr 10, 2005, 10:52 AM »
I am really whittling away at the cost of this setup.  The latest list is down to:

Two DI-524 wired/wireless combo routers and rebate options,

Two Siemens directional indoor antennnas.

I am now looking at about $150.00 before rebates.  I will not count the rebates until the bank says the checks did not bounce.    ;)
« Last Edit: Apr 10, 2005, 05:17 PM by Whizbang »

Offline Carskick

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Re:Need Advice on Wireless Networking
« Reply #20 on: Apr 10, 2005, 04:31 PM »
For the money you will save, I think that is a pretty cheap setup cost.
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Offline Whizbang

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Re:Need Advice on Wireless Networking
« Reply #21 on: Apr 19, 2005, 07:07 PM »
I have decided to do this in phases and possibly save a bit more.  Since the two computers are in complete open view of each other, if  the window shades were up, I am starting with a D-Link DI-524 combo router as the first purchase.  It has a promised $20.00 rebate, but is still a good buy from NewEgg at $49.00 before the rebate from D-Link.  Line-of-sight reception is rated at over 1000 feet on all of their routers, according to the very helpful D-Link tech.  That will at least get me hooked into Valor with the RJ-11 to RJ-45 change-over adapter I found on line and received in the mail  which will adapt the D-Link to the weird Valor setup.

I will need to decide on how to connect her computer, whether through a LAN gateway or USB adapter.  I am totally lost here.  My only experience is with a wired LAN connection, both PCI card and onboard LAN.  If i use the onboard LAN, I will need to connect it to a wireless gateway.  If I use a USB adapter, I would not need the gateway if the signal will reach.  

If neither way will reach, I then have the two-antenna option and then the expensive gateway booster setup at both ends to "bridge" the gap.

At least the basic setup is cheap before all the potential add-ons.   ::)

Advice appreciated.   ???

Offline 11kumi11

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Re:Need Advice on Wireless Networking
« Reply #22 on: Apr 27, 2005, 10:01 PM »
Best bet is to try and see what happens.  There are ways to boost power, and there are better antennas.  If you're looking for that kind of range, look for an access point with an external antenna jack - but don't expect to be able to find these for the $50 or so that consumer-grade versions cost.

A good antenna will run you about $100 and the access point, twice or more what a standard one will run.



Can you put a router in the middle?  I use 2 belkin routers at work to extend my wireless network.  I use Belkin wireless dsl/cable gateway router (FD7230) and a Belkin Access Point (FD7130).  The FD7230 is connected to my DSL modem.  The FD7130 then repeats the signal wirelessly from the FD7230 to any computer.  I can walk around with my latptop and hit each router without losing connection.






Offline Whizbang

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Re:Need Advice on Wireless Networking
« Reply #23 on: Apr 28, 2005, 12:18 PM »
Can you put a router in the middle?  I use 2 belkin routers at work to extend my wireless network.  I use Belkin wireless dsl/cable gateway router (FD7230) and a Belkin Access Point (FD7130).  The FD7230 is connected to my DSL modem.  The FD7130 then repeats the signal wirelessly from the FD7230 to any computer.  I can walk around with my latptop and hit each router without losing connection.
If Valor does connect me to DSL, that is probably what I will do.  The problem is now that they are not sure I am close enough to set up DSL here.  See Poast

Offline Whizbang

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Re:Need Advice on Wireless Networking
« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2005, 07:12 PM »
Yippee!  Valor said that I will be connected tomorrow and that no problems or restrictions were noted.  XXXX---->(fingers)  Now. the problem is setting up the wireless relay to daughter's house.  I know now why no one suggests getting a long antenna cable to run from a computer to the window-mounted antenna.  The high frequency is a real bleeder and requires a very expensive cable.  The cost of running just a 10' cable to an antenna in the window is almost as much as putting another wireless router in the window for a gateway/access point  to the antenna.  Unless I can find a couple of ten foot cables (twelve really needed) for less than $30.00, I might as well get two more gateway/routers and avoid line-loss problems.  That will require more moola that I had planned, but it may be necessary.  Fortunately, her birthday is not until May23.  I probably will do the unthinkable and look on Ebay.  I did find out that I can sell the Direcway unit for about $375.00 + S&H on Ebay.  That would help.  

Even better news is that my daughter's latest CAT scan showed significant improvement and may shorten her chemo treatment.  We will know more Thursday.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2005, 07:24 PM by Whizbang »

Offline 11kumi11

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Re:Need Advice on Wireless Networking
« Reply #25 on: May 03, 2005, 09:40 PM »
That's great news about your daughter.

I have a zoom wireless router and spent $120 for an external antenna with a 20 feet cable.  It didn't really help me extend the signal through walls.  I not only wasted money on the external antenna but I ended up getting the Belking gateway/access point combo.  Luckily for me, it was at work so I didn't spend a dime on my experiment.

Offline Bill

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Re:Need Advice on Wireless Networking
« Reply #26 on: May 04, 2005, 05:36 AM »
Whiz,
That really is good news about your daughter.

At the risk of being maybe a "damp blanket".. you're putting the cart before the mule.   First task is to get your own network up and running satisfactorily before you spend any more on your "second connection".  
You know about the best laid plans....

Bill
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Offline Whizbang

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Re:Need Advice on Wireless Networking
« Reply #27 on: May 04, 2005, 07:16 AM »
Hey, before I fixed the roof, damp blankets were the norm.   ;D   Thanks for the information on the wireless router too, 11kumi11.  I was up with the "late-sleeping chickens" today and set up the primary unit to the Valor modem and left the secondary unit on Direcway.  Valor, as expected, has not activated the DSL yet (They obviously don't raise chickens, or they could have been feeding them ::) ).  Direcway is getting so slow that it required 5 minutes to download 5 emails that had no attachments.  The download speed has not changed for files.  I guess you could compare it to being able to fall off a building without any problem once you can navigate your way to the top.  The email access is another matter.

I found a source on Ebay that customizes cables to length.  He can make up a couple of low line loss cables for about $25.00 total.  He says he can also customize the cable and antenna combination for $88.00 including S&H.  I have sent him an email to find out what the brand is on the antennas.

My computer desk is about ten feet from the exit window, but the cable would need to go up, over, around, and back.  That would require about 15 feet.  The wireless connection is direct line-of-sight to daughter's window at a distance of abot 315 feet.

router-----------6'--|
                             | 6'
                             |
                             |---->2'
                                      | (0ne foot)
                                      |-antenna--))))) 315' ((((antenna--15'-->computer PCI adapter.
                                     
I just now received an email from the guy who gave me the quote.  The antennas are new 14dbi gain directionals.  There is no way I can beat that anywhere.  Stay tuned.  

From links I can find, this seems to be an Enterasys  Maxrad discontinued model.  The unit that I can find listed that has similar appearance and specs costs $291.00.  The ebayer has a perfect rating.  Where do these guys come up with these things?
« Last Edit: May 04, 2005, 07:41 AM by Whizbang »

Offline Whizbang

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Re:Need Advice on Wireless Networking
« Reply #28 on: May 04, 2005, 03:41 PM »
Valor DSL is working fine on a simple plug-and-play.  I have not yet set the ISP address in router and email, but the connection is at least 5 times faster than Direcway.  That is probably conservative.

Offline Bill

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Re:Need Advice on Wireless Networking
« Reply #29 on: May 04, 2005, 03:47 PM »
Congratulations, Whiz. Amajor step forward and welcome to the world or broadband.

'
course now you'll be expected to be here more often. ;)
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