Poasters Computer Forums

Computer Discussion => System Builds => Topic started by: Ace on Jun 18, 2006, 08:31 AM

Title: Ace's Done Deal
Post by: Ace on Jun 18, 2006, 08:31 AM
Well, not for "me." No one would go out and buy a me.  But for a new computer, for me.

As may be noted, I'm once again "landlocked" with my current (4 year old) PC.  It's a Gigabyte mobo with Athlon XP 1800+, 1 gig of Corsair 2700 DDR, 60 gig maxtor hd, nVidia GeForce 4 Ti4200 64 meg card.  Board will only take up to a 2600 Athlon cpu, and requires a 1.5 v 4X AGP (2.0) card which seem to have left us in about... uh, 4 years ago.  Case is a basic putty thing with a 350 power supply.

So, would appreciate recommendations on:
version of AMD cpu
motherboard
nVidia card
case, and power supply (brands/type)

My usage is photo generation, wp and office stuff, stupid dial up web access and gaming.  The gaming has all but ended with my recent crashes, and my feeling is this thing will only handle a static game display (Diablo, golf, ok with Madden) but nothing fast moving or visual deep.  Since it's choking with games from a few years back (Neverwinter, Call to Duty) it can't deal with anything post 2002.

I'll naturally shop and research, but would like to know your opinions on configuration since I'm back to "square one."

Ace; I was so cutting edge for 15 minutes.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Ace on Jun 18, 2006, 08:52 AM
Oh; and also:  "under $100."

Well, ok, I guess I could go a little higher...  But don't want to add a zero.  This dumb thing was $900ish 4 years ago, and don't want to go that high even necessarily.  So maximum bang for the buck of most priority (and preventing that 20 minute obsolescence thingy...).  I'm reading back through various poasts on parts, but figuring standards to apply and brands would be a big help.  Like not bothering with dual core or not, reasonable power, dependable motherboard and features, PCI Express or stick with AGP....

Ace; I shouldn't have mentioned aliens, earlier.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: scuzzy on Jun 18, 2006, 11:14 AM
Hey Jester,

I'll be happy to share some knowledge with you, although it will likely have to wait a day or two.

Are you planning a complete new build, or are you hoping to use much of what you have now? Since you are also looking for a case, I'm assuming it will be a new build. If the latter, a full description of your current build will be helpful.

A dollar figure can help steer us to steer you in the right direction.

Scuzzy; build now, ask questions later
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Ace on Jun 18, 2006, 11:45 AM
Hey Copper,

Best I probably can do is stabilize the current one and donate it to my father in law for simple web use and minimal participation.  He doesn't have any, so in comparison this is a lot better than his.

I really don't know on price; guess it depends on what it's worth.  I just did a "build" on Monarch that was $1440 (gulp) and tweaked things and got to $1100.  At this point I'm thinking I'd just as soon have AMD 64 (but not Sempron and not dual core), decent nVidia at 6600 likely, 100 plus gigs hd.  I might go barebones and then add rest or just do like before with a Monarch build since it's minimal cost.  Probably an Antec case this time with 400+ watts and as many case fans as it'll take.  ATX mid tower.  Will likely replace the Altec speakers, maybe peripherals (and just pack up everything except monitor).  Naturally, $500 or so sounds better than $1,000.  Would like DVD burning, since I do a lot of CD's.  

And, yes, a floppy drive.  At least for Memtest....

Ace; where does the time go? It was only 2 years ago when I tweaked my BIOS and lost my desktop...
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: pat on Jun 18, 2006, 07:25 PM
I?ve been looking into an AM2 system and will most likely go that way sometime this summer. If you?re not in a big hurry you may want to see how that market shapes up. The first processors and motherboards are just coming to market and prices on processors are not too bad.

Several reviews show no great improvement over the regular Athlon 64?s so if you were just upgrading from an x64 system there might not be any big improvement. Since you are going from a regular socket A processor it might pay off to wait and see how the new AM2 socket plays out.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Ace on Jun 18, 2006, 07:44 PM
See what you mean.  One thing that's become apparent is that the PCI-Express cards are looking more pricey than the range and prices one could get with an AGP.  Naturally, any all would be better than the 4X AGP 2.0 version I'm (stuck) with.

Any opinions on motherboards/brands?  I have Gigabyte, but they're pretty cryptic (see "I don't speak Chinese") on things after the sale.  Abit?  Asus?  I'm leaning toward an Antec case, maybe one of the "silent" ones (or a Performance One).  Probably go black this time.  

Lots of reading up to do; hope I don't crash.

Ace; my screen has had the blues.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: pat on Jun 19, 2006, 04:27 AM
I used Asus boards on the last three systems I put together. For the most part they were fine. On one, an A8V series, the onboard sound turned out to be a little buggy and I had to add an additional sound card and disable the onboard feature.

I?m still using a Gigabyte socket A board for my main system. I like it fine. I think any of the top tier manufacturers make fine boards and looking for the features you want should take precedence over who makes it, at least initially. I curious to see how the current chipset from ATI is used in the new boards.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Ace on Jun 19, 2006, 04:49 AM
What does the ATI chipset entail?  Is that for dual core?  

I will go with PCI Express, after finally reading up on it.  I don't think I'll care about dual video card capabilities, though.  I've been waiting for Asus' site to load and function for about 5 minutes...  It sure ain't quick on dial up.

I should just buy new phone lines, while I'm at it...

Ace; I've got to get some trees trimmed, too.  I don't want those falling on my car.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: pat on Jun 19, 2006, 04:53 AM
Have a look at this article.
 CrossFire Xpress 3200: RD580 for AM2 (http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2767)

Yeah, you got to watch out for those tree limbs, they can reach down and grab you.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: scuzzy on Jun 19, 2006, 11:32 AM
I purchased an Antec Performance TX640B mid-tower case several months back, and I'm am very pleased with it. It is simple and unassuming, yet remains attractive. It's a solid case that comes with an excellent Antec 400W PSU. I only use the supplied 120mm fan, and did not bother adding optional fans. Overall, the sound level is exceptionally low, and the innards remain cool.

Antec Performance TX640B Case (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811129157)

I recommend using the least amount of fans possible. With careful building, parts selection, and a little help from your friends (that's us, of course), you can achieve a "cool" case design that will serve you and your ears well, as well as save you a couple bucks.

Scuzzy; I'd drop the dial-up. Instead, print out your messages and mail them to Poasters.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Ace on Jun 19, 2006, 03:35 PM
Funnily enough, my dial up doesn't drop... it actually does stay connected, and is dependable.  Slow as dirt, but dependable.

The case looks nice; I would think I'll do an Antec this time.  The only two pieces I could "build" on are the existing case, which is just a normal Lian type putty one and no great shakes, and the motherboard, which is limited, so nothing to "keep."  I did get an extra case fan with this one, so it does blow.  Quite a bit.

Ace; Maybe I'll email the poasts.  And you could write me back if they appear.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: pat on Jun 19, 2006, 04:36 PM
That is a nice case, I used it for the computers I put together for my sister and one of my daughters. I had thought about getting one for myself as well, but if I did, I would get this one instead.   CHENMING 501AWBU-F-0 BLK Black.  (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811125486)  It?s basically the exact same case without the side vents and power supply. I would like the option to choose a power supply more in line with the components and noise level I would want.

Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Ace on Jun 20, 2006, 04:32 AM
What power supply brand/wattage would y'all recommend?  400 or 450?  Any fan faves?  

You know, the other thing will be an anti virus.  I don't see going back with Norton on a new one.  So, whether it costs or not, what would you now say is the best to get?

Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: pat on Jun 20, 2006, 04:53 AM
Depends on requirements of system, I use and like Antec, but am open to others as well. I was looking into an ATI AIW 1900 series and it calls for a min 550-watt supply, so it just depends I guess.

I?m sure everyone has there (their?) favorite AV, I still go with the Trend Micro product. I?ve even downloaded and install the newest beta version for Windows Vista on my Vista install.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Bill on Jun 20, 2006, 07:26 AM
I would second the opinion for the Free version of AVG.

Bill
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Neon on Jun 21, 2006, 12:20 AM
If you plan to keep this system around for 3-5 years, consider leaving some room for future upgrade to MS Windows Vista. I was at the AMD/MS Tech Tour last night, and MS made a point to get the word out to system builders that the hardware requirements for Vista are going UP. There are three crucial items:

CPU - any current CPU should be sufficient. It will actually run on a P!!!/600, but only very slowly. Although Vista will support 32-bit and 64-bit, note that the "Longhorn" version of Small Business Server, due in late 2007, will be 64-bit ONLY. There is no deadline for end of 32-bit support for Windows, but the intent is to transition the industry ahead to 64-bit, for which hardware has been available for over 3 years.

Memory - they say 512MB minimum, 1GB recommended. If you know Microsoft, when they say minimum, they mean it. Vista will barely boot with 512MB, just don't count on multitasking.

Video - DirectX 9 support required. To get they full "Aero Glass" effect, 256MB graphics memory, pixel shader 2.0 are needed. This works out to nvidia 5xx0 series or ATI Radeon 9500 and up.

Intel plans to launch Core 2 Duo on July 23, and there are rumors that AMD will have substantial price cuts on their dual core (X2) CPUs on July 24, if you can wait until then. If not, they just had big price drops on the single core CPUs, so now is a good time to get one of those.

Few AM2 mobos have yet been thoroughly reviewed, so I'll go by past experience/reputation.

Pricing d'huevos neuvos:

$130 ABIT KN9 SLI Socket AM2 NVIDIA nForce 570 SLI MCP ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813127236) - midrange board nForce 570 SLI chipset, great layout, good customer service.

$149 AMD Athlon 64 3800+ Orleans 2000MHz HT Socket AM2 Processor Model ADA3800CNBOX - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103631) OR
$297 AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Windsor 2000MHz HT Socket AM2 Processor Model ADA3800IAA5CU - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103735) (currently overpriced - price cut rumor: $170 after 7/24)

$285 mushkin eXtreme Performance 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Unbuffered Dual Channel Kit System Memory Model 996523 - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820146108)

$170 (- $30 MIR) eVGA 256-P2-N554-AX Geforce 7600GT 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130017) - this is a midrange card, at the sweet spot for performance/price. eVGA and BFG have the best customer support.
OR, if you need to save a few $$,
$110 (- $10 MIR)  eVGA 256-P2-N541-TX Geforce 7600GS 256MB 128-bit GDDR2 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130020)

At this pricing, it doesn't make much sense to get a 6600, which has been sitting on the shelf for many months.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: pat on Jun 21, 2006, 04:32 AM
I think the free versions of AVG and Avast antivirus are fine products and use them both. I use Avast on my other system on the XP partition and AVG on the WinMe partition. I just like the all in one solution of Trend Micro on my main system.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Ace on Jun 22, 2006, 01:16 PM
Thanks for the item list, Neon, and the antifungal recommendations Pat.   I'd like a decent x16 video card (agree on the 7____ level instead of 6___ for nVidia) and can't see bothering with 2 cards/SLI.  So stuff you listed was what I was thinking.  I don't know on the CPU at this point...  Was thinking of just going with a single core but naturally don't want to stifle future use/demands if there'll be a need (soon).  I probably won't do anything for a month or more, so watching the prices makes sense to me.  Appreciate the Vista demands; know I won't start with below 1 gig RAM this time.  How's Mushkin compared with Corsair?

For hard drives, is SATA3 ok..? Or some other level?  Any brand recs?  I've got a Maxtor and it's been ok.  Just 60 gig, but I've only used about a third.  Will triple that at least on the next one.  No interest in dual processors or cards or hd (RAID)... just one good one of everything.

Ace; I wonder what's out there in faux Scandinavian furniture.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: scuzzy on Jun 23, 2006, 12:43 AM
For antivirus, I'm leaning toward BitDefender 9 Standard - I think version 10.0 will be available in Beta before long. One thing for sure, NAV is out once and for all. I'm tired of the bloat and the drain on system resources.

I don't much care for a single solution to protect my computer. I prefer separate products to do the job. A good mix is:

BitDefender 9x Standard
SpySweeper 4.5
ZoneAlarm 6x (free version)

I too was going to recommend nVidia's 7600 card. I'm strongly considering it for my current system as soon as I have a few bucks to burn. I think the 6600GT was great at one time, but it's time is probably up. The 7600 should do well propelling you into the future, especially if Vista enters the mix for you. BFG is likely whom I'd lean toward. Their performance is top notch, and their warranties are among the best. However, eVGA is also a top contender. Just don't settle for less than 256MB memory. If money is burning a hole in your pocket, you can get a BFG 7800GT for $299.

I again recommend the case I recommended. Pat's idea of buying the Chenming version is a good idea, since it allows you to hand pick the PSU. I too favor Antec PSUs, and their newer high efficiency models are certainly worth considering. However, the TruePower and SmartPower versions are no slouches, either. For wattage, something in the 400w to 450w should more than enough, unless you are planning to load your system with high performance accessories.

A single 120mm case fan will be more than plenty. Extra case fans will only add to the expense and noise levels without a significant benefit in cooling. Again, unless you plan to load up the case with high performance accessories, you won't need the extra fans.

For a hard drive, Seagates are very dependable and come with a nice 5 yr warranty. The drives perform very well, and are on the quiet side. Look for an SATA model, 7200 rpm, and an 8MB (or better) cache. My personal preference is for two smaller drives versus a single big one. A pair of 120GB Seagates, each partitioned in half, might work out great for you. That would give you 4 logical drives to manage your system more efficiently, with the ability to quickly and easily back up your primary drive to the second one. If you prefer a single drive, get at least a 160GB drive and partition it into 2 logical drives.

Western Digital would be my second choice for a hard drive. They are just about even with Seagate on performance, and the price will be fairly close to the same. However, they only offer a 3 yr warranty.

For a DVD burner, that's a no-brainer. The NEC ND-3550A ($36 at NewEgg, S/H included) is a steal. They are great burners that perform exceptionally well without sounding as if your computer is taking off down the runway. The only setback is that you'll have to purchase the burner software separately. My preference here is Nero 7, which sells for about $70 through NewEgg, if you include shipping.

If gaming is important, then get some quality memory with heat shields. Some good considerations are Crucial, OCZ, and Corsair. A pair of 512MB sticks should be your minimum consideration, although a pair of 1GB sticks will probably work better for gaming. But 2 pairs of 512MB sticks will likely perform better than 1 pair of 1GB sticks.

As for the CPU, look for a good deal on an AMD 64. Your wallet should be your primary guidance here. Dual core is certainly something to consider, but probably not necessary for the foreseeable future. Not much is really available that can take advantage of dual core, so the added expense may not be worth it today. However, if you plan on keeping your system for over 3 years, then you might reconsider. Maybe...

If you must have a 3.5" floppy drive, then go with either a Sony (which I have) or a Samsung. Either should perform very well for you. I'd avoid anything else.

Also consider a card reader. This is almost mandatory these days, and you'll likely become more dependent on them. A good/inexpensive model is the MTG card reader with an additional USB 2.0 slot. I purchased one recently and reviewed it at NewEgg (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820123001).

Well, maybe I'll throw some more thoughts at you later.

Scuzzy; two Scuzzies are better than one
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: scuzzy on Jun 23, 2006, 10:32 AM
I few months back I changed to Avira AntiVir for all my secondary computers, including my laptop. It's free and I find that it works well. It recently received better ratings than the free version of AVG; I think either from PC Magazine or PC World.

I has a nice interface and is easy on the system resources. The auto updater is sometimes a little bit on the slow side, similar to other free offerings.

Get it here (http://www.free-av.com/)
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Ace on Jun 23, 2006, 03:16 PM
Ok; I'm making a list.  Glad to hear Seagates are recommended; I always thought they were cool (anything called a barracuda is cool).  I'll get Nero again with a new one to drive the burn.

Ok; so a card reader is a front slot to stick in memory dealies?  Only thing I've done like that is plug in the Canons, through the USB hub...  If I finally am able to convert from dial up, is there anything to include internally for that?  

Looks like some PCI E mobos have two x16 slots aligned for video while others have one; seems like the only restriction on going with 2 video adapters is they gotta be the same (at least type) and probably rendition...  But might make sense to at least have the thing there and waiting, if later it would be beneficial.  

As a sidenote, I ran into a Norton/Symantec fix on their auto update that is affiliated with other system glitches...  So it does permeate as a product.

Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: scuzzy on Jun 23, 2006, 04:08 PM
Modern motherboards will have built-in NIC 10/100MB jack for networking & broadband. You won't need to purchase a separate card.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Ace on Jun 23, 2006, 04:46 PM
Cool; thanks.  Money is not exactly burning a hole, in my pocket.

Ace; it's sitting in a cool place.  In a vault.  Hidden from my view...
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Bill on Jun 24, 2006, 08:23 AM
And belonging to someone else?
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Neon on Jun 24, 2006, 08:02 PM
Ace,

Here's some thoughts on memory. Nearly all DDR2 memory will be compatible, so shop for:

1) well-known brands with good service and return policies. I'd recommend Corsair, Crucial, Mushkin, Kingston, OCZ (in no particular order). I've read a few good things about Patriot, but they are less common. I used to  be displeased with OCZ because of the Ultra 2 incident (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1457371,00.asp). I thought it did not speak well of their quality control, however it was really not their fault, so I'll include them in the list.

2) AMD CPUs benefit from low latency memory, which means you want to look for a low CAS number. Right now, CAS 5 is standard for DDR2, with CAS 4 and CAS 3 commanding pricing premiums. If you can find some nice CAS 4 (or for that matter, CAS 3, though it's hard to find) for a reasonable price, then go for it. However, don't spend a lot more, because the benefits are minor, except for the bragging rights to your madd 0vercl0x0r sk11z.

A bit on the advantages of dual cores -
There are currently a limited number of applications that have been written to take advantage of multiple threads, but some of those apps have a big performance improvement - Adobe Photoshop is a good example. However, this situation will change. There are now a dozen or so major games in development that will be multithreaded, and will run better on dual core. In addition, dual core will benefit multitasking. You can burn a CD whilst burning a monster in your favorite shootem up game. The dual cores aren't the last word in computing, as they lag the single cores in frequency, but don't dismiss the potential benefits.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: scuzzy on Jun 25, 2006, 11:52 AM
Out of curiosity, have you considered the possibility of replacing your desktop PC with a notebook PC?

I think it'd be great for you to build your own PC, and I'm not looking to talk you out of it. But I'm considering replacing my desktops PCs as they wear out with notebooks. I'll probably install a server in the basement to network the whole thing.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Carskick on Jun 25, 2006, 07:35 PM
When it comes to gaming, as Ace seems to like, Laptops just don't have the same comfort and feel as a normal desktop with external keyboard and mouse setup. While I do not think having a laptop is a bad idea, in fact the one that is on it's way here has a nice video card, I still will do 95% of my gaming on desktop. The experience is just better overall. Plus, it's easier to upgrade things like the CPU and video card. Most modern desktops also handle 4GB RAM, while most modern laptops are only up to 2GB, so you lose some expandability there.

At the moment, if I were to start over completely, I would get an AM2 setup with only 1GB of DDR2. DDR2 will get cheaper soon, so don't go overboard in buying it now. I would also get a cheap AM2 chip, in hopes that better ones will soon be available for much less, and plan on upgrading about 2 years after buying the machine. Essentially, that is what I am doing with the 939 machine I built 9 months ago. In a little over a year when 939 dual core chips are only $130, Ill pick one up to replace my 3000+. Also, by then more programs should take advantage of the dual core I'll know longer pay a premium for.

On the flip side, you could buy a fully loaded machine now, not plan on upgrading, but have it hold out for at least 2 sockets down the road. However, I find this to be more costly in the long run, plus you get new stuff less often.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Ace on Jun 27, 2006, 04:51 PM
Yeah, like Cars said, for comfort and game capability.  I don't use laptops hardly ever and just get bothered by the keyboard and mouselessness.  So it'll be a desktop.  Hopefully a light one, if I do have to put it on my lap.

So: AM2 instead of 939..?  It sounds like both take dual core CPU, both have dual channel RAM (right?)... which is the better one or newer one?  Thanks for the dual core followup, Neon, and your tips on planned obsolescence Cars.  Makes sense.  And the shopping tip on memory.  I was fond of Corsair, and thought it was pretty cool (till the memory took a dump..).  Would probably go with it again.  How's Buffalo?  Saw that appear as a brand (no, not that guy looking for a kid, in England).

While I'm figuring mobo possibilities I'm shopping, too.  Hopefully I can multitask and figure a fix and a purchase simultaneously.

Ace; I'm lucky to do one thing at a time...



Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Buffalo2102 on Jun 27, 2006, 10:09 PM
I'm just fine thanks....oh, not me.  Sorry.

AM2 is the latest and supposedly greatest.

Buff; Glad I could help
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Carskick on Jun 28, 2006, 08:24 PM
The AM2 CPUs are cheaper as well. An A64 3500+ is only $113 on new egg. A 3000+ is $94, so for $19, get the extra 400Mhz.

A good AM2 motherboard should not be more than $100 on newegg. For new tech, it's quite cheap.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Ace on Jun 29, 2006, 10:12 AM
Okey doke; thanks for the followup.  I'm down to the last piece of which I know NOTHING.

(ok, I know I don't know much more than nothing on the other parts, either...).  But anyway, I'll likely pack up the Mag CRT monitor with the old unit (if I rescuscitate it).  So will likely go with a new monitor for the new unit.  Thing is, there sure aren't CRT's out there... (at least not for view).  Why I've kept with that is low purchase price and flexibility in being able to set resolution for gaming.  But my guess is I'm going to go with an LCD...now.

I know they have a native resolution; may I ask
CAN you reasonably set them at other resolutions if you want to, or need to (let's say an older game, or knocking it down to play one better..)?  Or are they just not right if you try that?

Is it best to get the highest possible native resolution?  Guess I'm wondering if getting one at 1024 might be preferable to say 1280, if the first is more capable with a game (and doesn't "over do" it)....?

I definitely want to keep it sub-$300, and hopefully 250 and down.  I did find a 19" ViewSonic for 199 at Office Depot (rebate).  Think it's at 1024 native.  I'll go with the 7600 GT nvidia card, so any other recs as far as what to look for?  I won't do TV viewing or DVDs or 2 screen or anything goofy; just basic monitor stuff.  So far Circuit City has the best selection, other prices.  Appreciate tips on this, especially because I just have not studied them (but probably will start now...!).  And especially advice on switching from CRT to LCD.

Ace; ok, I'm now leaving the building again.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Bill on Jun 29, 2006, 11:30 AM
My experience is limited, but my first was a 17" LG Flatron with a 12ms(?) response rating.  I am pleased with it and recently replaced my old CRT with a second LG 17" Flatron with an 8ms response.  The new one seems slightly faster than the old, but I might be imagining it.

The native resolution on both is 1280 but I run both at 1024 because the stuff on the screen just seemed too small.  I have had no problem with either at that setting.

The first one came from best buy, the second from Newegg at about $250.  The LG 1780Q is on sale for $209.

Samsung seems to be a fovorite of many, however.

Bill
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Carskick on Jun 29, 2006, 03:21 PM
Sams Club has good no rebate deals on LCDs. The Smasung 17" I bought is now $199, down from the 250 I paid months ago. They have a 19" DVI 1280 Samsung for less than $250 I believe as well. We have a viewsonic at the store, which is nice, but I prefer the Samsung for it's sleekness and better color. You should be good with Samsung, LG, ViewSonic, and many others.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: scuzzy on Jun 29, 2006, 08:00 PM
My favorite are Samsung. The 20" SyncMaster 204B I purchased was in the low $500 range, but it was worth every penny to me. The native resolution for this beast is 1600x1200, which is where I keep it.

I'd suggest a Samsung 19" with 1280x1024 resolution, with the quickest response time that you can afford. 8ms or less is ideal for gaming, but keep in mind each manufacturer has a different idea of how to measure response time. A "hands on" review will be helpful here.

If you go with a 17", then 1024x768 native might be best for that smaller screen.

All LCD monitors perform best at their native resolution, which will automatically be the highest resolution for that monitor. Changing to a lower resolution will degrade the picture to some degree. Some monitors do better than others in this area, but it will always be a degraded picture. As for some games that I have tried, the lower resolution required still looked fine.

If at some time in the future you go with WinVista, then the higher resolution will be to your benefit. Vista supposedly will adjust fonts appropriately, regardless of resolution. This will prevent you from having to squint to read the tiny fonts.

You should go for a DVI connection, even if you have to invest a few dollars more. That will ensure the best picture possible and will be a great match for the 7600GT.

Also, don't rule out the widescreen models. Take a look to see if you can find something you like.

Many LCDs have a glossy coating that irritates me to no end. I hate using those monitors with any sort of light behind me because it looks like I'm typing into a mirror. However, some people love them. Whatever, I hate them and see them as a waste of money. But to each his own. If you like the glossy coating then by all means get one.

Also, consider getting your monitor from a local store with a good return policy. If the monitor does not perfectly suit your needs it will be much easier to return as opposed through the UPS/FedEx route.

You may find this useful: PC Magazine 19" LCD Reviews (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1911998,00.asp)

The reviewed ViewSonic VX924 may be up your alley.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Carskick on Jun 30, 2006, 09:54 AM
GLossy coating works great at LAN parties where the lights are low.  :D

Anyways, I agree, the glossy coating causes glare, even worse than most CRTs. I would not pay extra for it. I believe the laptop I ordered came with it, but it was not an option to not get it. I had a stuck pixel on my relatively new samsung, but a few flicks on the panel made it like new again.  ;D
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Buffalo2102 on Jul 03, 2006, 08:44 AM
I agree about the glossy coatings.  One of the advantages of having a wireless home network is that you can sit in the garden on a fine day and surf/work using a notebook.  This is virtually impossible with my Gateway notebook though as it has a glossy screen.  All you can see is yourself and your surroundings reflected in it :(
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Ace on Jul 03, 2006, 11:20 AM
I definitely don't want to see myself in my monitor...

I picked up an LG Flatron 19" that was on sale at Best Buy until Saturday.  It has a fast response and extreme contrast so trust it'll work.  It's in the box, and will probably remain until I build a computer around it.  It's supposed to have an "anti-glare" coating, so hope it's the opposite of the high-vis glossy sheen.  I can control the ambient lighting in the den anyway, so hope it doesn't get shimmery.  Glad to know about the DVI hook-up; that was a dealbreaker on a lot of them.

Definitely easier to get one of those home than a CRT.  

Ace; now to immerse myself in memory....

Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Buffalo2102 on Jul 04, 2006, 08:22 AM
I've got the 17" Flatron myself and can't fault it.  Hope you enjoy yours as much.

Buff; nurse..... the screens!
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: scuzzy on Jul 04, 2006, 10:09 AM
Last year, I bought a 19" LG Flatron (1980Q) for my daughter. It was a beautiful monitor that produced a stunning picture. I believe the response time was 8ms. Anyway, it's been serving her quite well. Although it was pricey at the time (over $500), I have no regrets.

So, which model did you get? The L1932TQ w/4ms refresh? Or the Elite L1970HR w/2ms refresh? No doubt that you'll be pleased with either one.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Ace on Jul 05, 2006, 06:00 AM
It's the 1932 with the 4 ms refresh rate.  Believe me, once I get the new pc and hook this thing up I'm going to time it.  It dang well better refresh as promised.  It was $269, and that seemed to be as good as any online price.  Didn't see anything like it retail locally...  I did like the picture on Sonys but the things don't tilt or adjust at all.  

Guess I'll move on to keyboard and mice and antiviruses.  Will go with AVG or TrendMicro.  Wanted to get another Logitech keyboard, as I've like this, but don't want to go wireless but DO like USB for the connect.  Looks like Circuit City has the Media Express Elite version that would work for me.

HEY: on the subject of antispyware:  Does PCillin allow one to NOT do the firewall?  I had a mess of a time when I installed that a couple years ago, in getting it to let me connect (and allow anything OUT).  I'd like to have an antivirus on disk, so I can install without going online, and Trend Micro does have theirs locally but AVG is electronic/download based (can get a CD after the fact).  Same with the BitDefender: electronic.  If I need to I can do that/burn it...

Ace; happy 5th of July.  Everywhere.

Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Buffalo2102 on Jul 05, 2006, 10:35 AM
PCCillin is very friendly these days and it's easy to turn the firewall off if you want to.  I find the current version very easy to use though and haven't had any problems with allowing things in/out.  The good thing about PCCillin is that it is a single solution for firewall, AV, antispyware, antiphishing etc.  If you don't want the whole package then you're probably better off going with separate solutions like Avast and Zone Alarm.  This has the added benefit of being free.

Buff; Gratis
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Ace on Jul 06, 2006, 07:37 AM
"Gratis"... that must be Italian for "we're in the World Cup Finals And You're Not."  

Glad to hear Trend Micro's PCillin is adjustable.  Like I said, I can actually get that locally on disk and have it "ready to load" when the new PC arrives.  Their site always throws me as it's hard as heck to JUST locate the antivirus product and not the whole shebang.  

I will likely go with Monarch again just because they did well with the last one on options and assembly (for $75).  Last configurator I did I went with Sonata II Antec case (figuring 450 watts is going to be rec for SLI) and Patriot "gaming" 800 memory at 2 gigs (low latency).  It's a chunk of change but being dual channel you need to start with 2 identical sticks anyway, and figure it oughta wind up with 2 gigs eventually so may as well just have it come that way.  That was the whole AMD2 point, after all.

I'll probably have a monitor, and keyboard and mouse that I can hook up and play with soon...  Oh, and the printers.

Ace; maybe I can load a game on the printer, and just play it hard copy
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: scuzzy on Jul 09, 2006, 10:54 AM
PC World recently tested several antivirus programs. Here's the chart summary of how they fared: PC Word AV Testing (http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,124475,00.asp)

If you take a look, you'll see that AVG and Trend Micro PC-cillin did poorly in comparison to the others. Norton was in the middle, and BitDefender knocked everyone's socks off. Of the free offerings, AntiVir Personal did best. I was surprised to see McAfee came in second, although it was a distant second to BitDefender.

I recently downloaded Kaspersky 6 through NewEgg for $24.99. PC World gave Kaspersky 5 a hit for the interface, but version 6 made some apparently needed improvements. Others who are experienced with version 5 appear much happier with version 6. I have never seen version 5, but I have no issues with version 6's interface.

One very nice thing about Kaspersky 6 is that the trial version is excellent. It's a full 30 day license with no restrictions, and without the "in your face" reminders that you're using a trial version. The trial license is so good that I recommend using it for the full 30 days before updating it to the purchased one year license.

You might also take a look at Scot Finnie's testing of antivirus programs: Scot's Newsletter (http://www.scotsnewsletter.com/81.htm#aviii). He didn't like BitDefender because he had some issues with how it performed with Eudora Mail, and he gives an interesting perspective on how an antivirus program should work.

I recommend against the single package solution, since no single product excels in all areas. But if this is important to you, consider ZoneAlarm Antivirus plus Firewall (http://www.zonelabs.com/store/content/catalog/products/sku_list_zaav.jsp?dc=12bms&ctry=US&lang=en&lid=nav_av) for $19.95, then separately install SpySweeper or Spyware Doctor (see below).

I continue to use ZoneAlarm (free version) for my firewall protection, although I've been using Comodo 2.0 Firewall (http://www.personalfirewall.trustix.com/) on my laptop for about a month now. ZoneAlarm is considered by many as bloatware, since it has grown really fat. Comodo is "slim and trim" compared to ZoneAlarm, but it is as effective, as well as free. Comodo works fine for my laptop, but I've noticed that it tends to be on the slow side in training program access. Comodo also uses a "Launch Pad" that provides access to the firewall and other services. It's only slightly bothersome in that you have to take the extra step to get to the firewall. However, it's harmless and doesn't contain any sort of crapware. Overall, Comodo has a nicely polished interface.

For spyware, I recommend purchasing either Spyware Doctor or SpySweeper. Both are highly rated and self-maintaining. I purchased SpySweeper for my daughter's system, and I liked it enough to install it in my main system. I downloaded it through NewEgg for $21.75 per license, but for some reason NewEgg gives you the 3.x version. Fortunately, it is easily updated to version 4.5.

If "free" is important, then I recommend Ad-Aware SE Personal, Spybot Search and Destroy, Spyware Blaster, and Windows Defender. Using those four have kept my systems clean, but they require a lot of maintenance on my part. Because of that, I'm going to purchase SpySweeper for the rest of my systems.

One of the best freebies available is WinPatrol (http://www.winpatrol.com). I highly recommend this excellent utility. I love it for its excellent monitoring of startup programs. It's the first program I found that was able to easily tame QuickTime's agressive insistance on installing at startup. Quote from their site:

Quote
As a robust SECURITY MONITOR, WinPatrol will alert you to hijackings, malware attacks and critical changes made to your computer without your permission. WinPatrol PLUS includes our unique, patent pending R.I.D. technology.

As a MULTI PURPOSE SUPPORT UTILITY WinPatrol replaces multiple system utilities with its enhanced functionality. Explore deep into your system and understand what programs are installed and why. WinPatrol PLUS provides easy to understand descriptions of over 10,000 programs.

Although SpySweeper has a good startup monitoring tool, I disabled it in favor of WinPatrol's offering. I haven't tried WinPatrol's Plus version, but I will likely upgrade in the near future. I don't have a real need for the Plus version, but I think so highly of WinPatrol that I want to help support the company.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: freelance on Jul 09, 2006, 10:58 AM
do you not think that pc world rated the free stuff like avg poorley because they are free.?
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: scuzzy on Jul 09, 2006, 11:14 AM
I guess I'm not that skeptical.  :)

Over the years, I've found PC World to be fair in their reviews. Heck, just look at the black eye they gave Norton. You also can't miss that the free Avira AntiVir Personal bested PC-cillin.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Carskick on Jul 09, 2006, 09:08 PM
I have disagreed with them several times before. AVG is far superior to both McAfee and Norton IMHO. Many computers that had the former had troubles fixed after removing the two. AVG removes and prevents much of the stuff the others do not. AVG is also much less obtrusive, and requires less system resources.

My favorite anti-spyware programs are free. The ones you have to pay for do not seem any more effective to me. With the trio, I have removed and prevented enough to have all my computers not have any spyware related problems.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: scuzzy on Jul 09, 2006, 10:03 PM
I certainly don't think PC World is the final authority. I too have my own thoughts on certain reviews, and I too sometimes disagree. But I don't have a reason to believe that their testing isn't fair across the board for the products they rate.

I do wish reviewers would spend more time on the things that are important to many users. As you mentioned, some products are bloated resource hogs. Even if they rate well, I'd rather not install them on my system. An 800 lb gorilla might do a slightly better job at protecting my house than say a rotweiller, but I'd rather have the rotweiller.

I agree that the free antispyware offerings do an excellent job. Unfortunately, they require more user input to keep them updated, etc. However, I believe that either SpySweeper or Spyware Doctor is the best solution for the average person that doesn't want to constantly worry about keeping 3 or 4 products updated.

My daugher is a perfect example of a person who simply wants her computer to work. She isn't interested in which the best of anything, and she doesn't want to do scans or updates. She just wants the stupid thing to work when she turns it on.

Most computer users fall into the same category as my daughter. The rest of us are geeks who probably needlessly torture ourselves with our obsession.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Carskick on Jul 09, 2006, 11:33 PM
I agree that the free antispyware offerings do an excellent job. Unfortunately, they require more user input to keep them updated, etc. However, I believe that either SpySweeper or Spyware Doctor is the best solution for the average person that doesn't want to constantly worry about keeping 3 or 4 products updated.


That is a very good point. Many of my customers end up never updaing or running any of the anti-spyware programs I install, even if I give them a walkthrough or written instructions. They all want something automatic. However, automatic means always running, and slows down the computer. Even if a program takes 5MB of RAM all the time, that is too much for me. And some of my customers only have 128 or 256, so recource hogs are out of the question. Also, some of my users only have 56k, so auto updaters can be irrating, requiring dialing in when they may not want to.

I would like a program where they could click an icon, and the program would update, scan, immunize and delete with no user input. That way, any user could do it as they wanted. In fact, I have considered writing a script once I learn C++ or visual basic where the user could click a file, and it would automatically update and run Spybot, Adaware, and SpywareBlaster. Ease of use, power, and freedom.

But you are very correct that some of the pay programs are easier for average people to use, though most average computer users are willing to learn the basics required for those programs. It seems only those who are scared of computers will not do it.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Buffalo2102 on Jul 10, 2006, 01:16 AM
Quote
I agree that the free antispyware offerings do an excellent job. Unfortunately, they require more user input to keep them updated, etc. However, I believe that either SpySweeper or Spyware Doctor is the best solution for the average person that doesn't want to constantly worry about keeping 3 or 4 products updated.
Which brings us back to a single solution again.

I agree that no single solution excels in all areas but for me PCCillin has excelled as an all-rounder.  Since I have been using the full solution (more than two years) I have not had the need for any of the adware, spyware, start-up control programmes that you mentioned and that I used to have cluttering up my system.  I simply install it and forget about it.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Ace on Jul 10, 2006, 09:12 AM
Actually, I just meant having just an antivirus.  And ideally on disk.  I'd just as soon go with the Windows firewall.  I'll definitely check out Kapersky and BitDefender; TrendMicro is the only one available retail that isn't Norton or MacAfee...  I'd just rather be set with all protective devices before I go online, than having to go online to get them.  

I've liked the Spybot and Adaware combo, and I've got Webroot as part of Earthlink as an additional scan.  I like picking and choosing what to scan (between spyware, and viruses).  This time I might actually pay for a spyware product.  

So is AVG free, forever?  I thought you had to buy it (and they were to do a 2 year license).  

Glad you guys hashed this out!
Ace; I don't know what a spy wears; I guess black, or white.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Allie-Baba on Jul 10, 2006, 03:48 PM
Ace:  I don't see a specific response to you "native" resolution - and it appears that you may have pulled the trigger on one already - but, here goes.

As mentioned - the "native" resolution is the maximum resolution one will get on the monitor.  However, more then that, it's really a 1:1 mapping pixel for pixel, ignoring the color aspect, of the resolution set on the PC.  Where this becomes an issue is that the LCD monitors must correct internally for any differences between their native resolution and the resolution the PC is set at.

Running at "native" resolution will always not only give you the best image, i.e., no pixelation, etc.  but will also give you the best performance.  All monitors reference their speed, brightness, etc. in native resolution.

(This is my interpretation from the documentation that came with my Viewsonic 19+" Widescreen monitor that I love BTW.  Color and brightness is great and I love the simple black surround.  You do give up some effective height against a 19" non-widescreen FWIW but that is minor.  Only thing I wish it had might be page rotation and a stand that rotated in the x-direction as well. Not just up-down.  Given that it came with the DVI cable though I'm happy.)

THNX
BRAD
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Ace on Jul 10, 2006, 05:07 PM
ThaNKS, Brad.  I hadn't heard it explained like that, so I appreciate the feedback.  Makes sense.

I've had about the most mediocre CRT setup imaginable, so I'm sure this will be an experience.  Gonna be "sensory overload" to have a new pc, new keyboard, new mouse, new monitor...  New desk, even.  

Not even Faux Scandinavian.  

Sorta Swedish-modern, actually.  What a difference.

Ace; I'll have to watch Last of the Mohicans on it, to see what the native resolution is.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: scuzzy on Jul 11, 2006, 12:48 AM
More thoughts from Scot's Newsletter (http://www.scotsnewsletter.com/82.htm#aviv) on antivirus programs (Part IV).
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Ace on Jul 11, 2006, 07:06 AM
Ok, I read that too.  Man, it's like everyone has an opinion about Antivirals.  

I can get an AMD 64 3800+ for @$140... should I do it now or wait to see if the double cores drop?  Will single cores drop, too, lower than that...?  Oh, the suspense.

Ace; I'm chompin' at the bit, here.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Allie-Baba on Jul 11, 2006, 08:06 AM
Ace - pull the cord, fish or cut bait, pull the trigger, pay your dime and just get started (notice I didn't say the other word), put the pedal to the metal, the light changed it's time to go, ...........  ;)

Your like me - it's hard with the PC environment the way it is.  All I can say is, in the end, it probably won't matter much either way. Prices are always going down (except for a few years ago with memory) on PC equipment so you just need to find your "pain vs. pleasure" point.  The performance you want at the price you want to pay.  What ever gets you there get it.  If there is a major step improvement later or a price drop - well the heck with them.

This little 64K Timex PC here is all I'll ever need :).


BTW - if Canadians are Americans, and Brazilians are Americans, and Mexicans are Americans, and us, a ..... ahem, Americans (I don't have another name for me, U-S-Ans?) are Americans........ Then does Canada have Native Americans or Native Canadians?  But that's another topic for another post on another Discussion.

THNX
BRAD
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Ace on Jul 11, 2006, 09:23 AM
I suppose if they came over the landbridge from Asia and the Europeans arrived from Africa or the mideast and same for the Asians as they headed north or sideways or wherever that garden was, or Babylon... I think we could all be referred to as

well, Earthlings.

I guess that's where Earthlingk came up with the ISP name.  I know what you mean about fish or get off the pot.  Unless it's shooting them in a barrel, which seems to be suggested.  I definitely don't have money for a gun, though, if I gotta get a new computer.

You know, back in the Days of Quantex I decided to "act fast" (hastily...) and order my Quantex during the Christmas Rush to catch the dying days of Windows 95 r.2 and not wait for Windows98 and had the very first AGP configuration that no one could tell was actually working or not due to the PCI bridge thingy and I got it without any of the software disks so nothing was really installed or would work, until weeks later when they came unless you think getting page fault errors is desired.

So, I like to wait just long enough and not too.  That works for me.

Ace; it won't be pain until  I get that credit card bill.  

Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: scuzzy on Jul 11, 2006, 09:59 AM
The WinXP firewall is a "better than nothing" proposition, but not your best bet. It only monitors incoming artillery, not the enemy from within.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Bill on Jul 11, 2006, 10:15 AM
I would second Scuzzy's opinion about the imprtance of the outbound aspects of a firewall.  

Bill
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: scuzzy on Jul 11, 2006, 11:33 AM
And I third my opinion.

What's this garbage about giving Monarch $75 to build your computer? You ain't getting out of this that easily, Bubb... You're building this box with our help whether you like it or not. And you're going to pay each of us $75.

Look at this great $25 heatsink from NuevosHuevos: Artic Freezer 64 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835185125). PC Mag used it for their "Biggest/Badest/Fastest/Meanest/Most Wicked PC Ever" build.

Don't forget YourMama's advice to look here (http://www.antec.com/us/pro_b_stock.php) for good deals on Antec B stock cases. And ingeborgdot recommends looking at Ajump.com (http://www.ajump.com), which so far has a decent rating from ResellerRatings.com (http://www.resellerratings.com/seller1728.html).

Scuzzy; I am unanimous in that
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Ace on Jul 11, 2006, 12:37 PM
In my previous life (2 years ago) when I attempted a foreign firewall the thing jumped on everything I tried to access and get to and blocked me perfectly, so it was the worst case scenario (as is described on some, in the reviews).  I got so fed up with it I uninstalled it as the user interface seemed opposite of what it wanted to know.  

Ace; I'm not like N. Korea and planning to drop a missile on myself.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Carskick on Jul 11, 2006, 08:29 PM
Ok, I read that too.  Man, it's like everyone has an opinion about Antivirals.  

I can get an AMD 64 3800+ for @$140... should I do it now or wait to see if the double cores drop?  Will single cores drop, too, lower than that...?  Oh, the suspense.

Ace; I'm chompin' at the bit, here.

I doubt the single cores will drop much more. When the Athlon XP was at it's peak, the 2600+ T-Bred B, which I watched, bottomed out just under $100. I think single cores are a great deal right now. You can get 2 single core 3800+ for the price of one dual core 3800+. This confuses me.

However, the single core athlon 64s are by no means slow. In fact, since you are a gammer, Ace, a single core A64 may be the better bet, at least for the money. Take the $160 you save, and put it towards your RAM or graphics card fund.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Ace on Jul 12, 2006, 04:31 AM
Thanks Cars.  That's what I was beginning to think, that there is a basic bottom line cost point that they're not gonna go under.  It's all based on Neon's or Notredamus' or whoever predicted the double cores would drop in a couple week due to Intel's 2-piece market flood.  So an X2 might hit $170 or so by end of month.

Probably I will go ahead before then; I'm figuring if it ever matters or becomes attractive I could pop in a dual core later (wouldn't cause any great distress if I did, I assume...?) and add another video card to use the SLI configuration if a 7600GT got down to $50 or so in a couple years.  I know that in shopping for an AMD XP 2200 or 2400 (if I wanted or needed to swap out my socket A 1800+) that they remain pricey, in comparison to new stuff.

I did price and list everything through new egg; they're always pretty much a match with Monarch.  

Ace; maybe my old one is fighting me because it knows I'm trying to get rid of it... like a car senses when you're about to trade it in.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Neon on Jul 12, 2006, 06:40 AM
Ace, to my knowledge, AMD price cuts on X2 processors are still scheduled for July 24. The X2 3800+ is supposed to be $169, and there is now a rumor that a x2 3600+ may be offered, but I haven't seen availability/pricing.

They already had a big price drop on the single cores last month, so there won't be additional big drops soon.

Prices generally start high, then drop stepwise as faster models get added to the lineup, or as market conditions otherwise dictate. As Cars said, the prices eventually reach a plateau, and don't change much until the product goes end of life.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Ace on Jul 12, 2006, 06:57 AM
Would you pop an extra $69 (if that what it gets to, which I know is an if) for an X2 3800 over a regular old 3800?  Would converting later to a dual from a single require any BIOS tweaks or other reactions?  

Really, I don't do two things at once, on a computer.. so it's not like I'd need to burn a disk while playing a game or jump across software.  

I would go with a 3800 single over a 3600 double...

Ace; or a 32 caliber once I can afford it.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: scuzzy on Jul 12, 2006, 09:10 AM
Well, here's my advice for the day...

Try not to order one piece at a time. Make a list of the parts you want, and what you're willing to pay. Run the list through us for advice, if you wish. Make final adjustments if necessary, then order all at once from NewEgg/NuevosHuevos (http://www.newegg.com).

By ordering all items at one time, you may save several dollars in shipping costs.

The rule of thumb is to buy the newest technology that you can afford. The single core AMD will likely work great for you, but you never know what game will come along that will truly take advantage of a dual core CPU. Altough you could upgade to dual core later, it will likely end up costing more than if you had purchased dual core in the first place. Again, that's for you to decide.

I like your choice of the 7600GT - I will hopefully upgrade my main system to that card before too long.

ASUS makes pretty good boards, but ASUS doesn't have the friendliest web site for downloads and updates. Everytime I hassle with their site (such as last night where I ONCE AGAIN couldn't get what I wanted) I tell myself that I'll never buy another ASUS.

If a great gaming machine is your goal, then consider dual core, dual video cards, RAID 0,  and low latency RAM. Of course, we're talking more funds.

Scuzzy; hock your wife's wedding ring, after she throws it at you
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: scuzzy on Jul 12, 2006, 09:18 AM
BTW: You can window shop at NuevosHuevos (http://www.newegg.com), then save the items to the Wish List. Once they are saved, check "Share" so that the list can be viewed by public. It takes a little time, but once it's published for public view you can share the link with us.

For example: Ace's Computer (http://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion/wishlist/PublicWishDetail.asp?WishListNumber=1681987)

What's nice is that once your list is complete, you can make the purchase all at once.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Ace on Jul 12, 2006, 10:03 AM
A dual core is in no way inferior (slower, less capable...) than a single core on any task not requiring 2 cores, is they?

I did the wish list; didn't really want to stuff things in the cart.  I hate it when someone leaves one by my car...

I wouldn't piece together parts, one at a time... I'll get the whole shebang at once.  My appreciation for Monarch is the same stuff well put together at like cost and being able to bug tech help 4 years later like I am now about the DVD/CD player lack of responsiveness (like I had with the motherboard in its deathbed, as I got advice on how to proceed with that and the error messages...).  

Shoot, if they weren't in Georgia I'd dump the thing on their doorstep and have them mess with it...

Ace; they're probably glad I'm where I'm at.

Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Carskick on Jul 12, 2006, 10:13 AM
A dual core is in no way inferior (slower, less capable...) than a single core on any task not requiring 2 cores, is they?

This should help

Application: Doesn't utalize dual core

Athlon64 3200+          Athlon X2 3800+
2ghz                            2ghz
512kb Cache               512kb Cache x 2  
$100                           $300

Nearly identical performance


Athlon64 3800+          Athlon X2 3800+
2.4Ghz                        2.0Ghz
1MB Cache                  512kb Cache x 2
$150                           $300

The Athlon64 3800+ will perform much better



As you can see, if you go by clock speed and cache, the dual and single cores will perform very similarly. If you go by model number, the single core will perform much better. This all changes when dual core is utalized, which is what you are paying extra for.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Neon on Jul 12, 2006, 10:15 AM
It's not possible to give a yes/no, because it depends on the application(s), and how you use your system. Some applications benefit only with faster CPU frequency, so a 3800+ at 2.4 GHz will beat a X2 3800+ at 2.0 GHz. Some applications/games are multithreaded, and can immediately take advantage of two processing cores. Don't forget that dual cores help with multitasking, as well.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Ace on Jul 12, 2006, 12:07 PM
Alright; that makes sense.  Thanks for arguing Cars and Neon.  (but please, no more Neon Cars for me...).  I thought you mentioned something about frequency difference Ne previously, but I didn't catch what you were referring to.  Thanks Cars for laying out the comparison.

From what I understand then, I should wait for the triple core to arrive.  

Or maybe a no core... An AMD AM2 Donut Processor.  Maybe use the code name "Krispy Kreme."

Ace; I don't multi task.  Ever.  Remember, I sat through a weekend just watching it beep 3 times; over and over.

Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Buffalo2102 on Jul 12, 2006, 01:35 PM
Ah, but you can't watch something beep, surely?  Therefore, you must have been watching and listening - multitasking!

Buff; clever.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Ace on Jul 12, 2006, 01:44 PM
No, I watched.  I stared wide eyed in wonder with a blank expression, and watched it.  I watched it and watched it over and over and sprayed the sticks and  slot and waited and vacuumed and pulled the battery and the ATX plug and watched and waited and watched it.  Repeatedly.

Insanity is doing the same thing the same way over and over again, and expecting different results

I didn't even hear the "beeps" after awhile.  I felt them course through the core of my being.

Heh... "my core."  "I wonder if I'm a dual core or a single core!"  hee hee...  

Ace; nuts.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Buffalo2102 on Jul 12, 2006, 01:50 PM
No, nuts don't have cores - apples do.

Buff; fruit!
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Carskick on Jul 12, 2006, 02:06 PM
It's not possible to give a yes/no, because it depends on the application(s), and how you use your system. Some applications benefit only with faster CPU frequency, so a 3800+ at 2.4 GHz will beat a X2 3800+ at 2.0 GHz. Some applications/games are multithreaded, and can immediately take advantage of two processing cores. Don't forget that dual cores help with multitasking, as well.

Right, I was refering to program performance on programs that Do NOT take advantage of dual core, as Ace asked.

As Neon stated, if you use 2 programs simutaneously (I think I spelled it right) that do not use dual core, than they SHOULD each be assigned to a different core, and performance should increace. However, comparing solely one single-threaded task on a dual core vs single core, the single core will have better performance, but if they have similar specs, dual core will not hurt.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Ace on Jul 12, 2006, 02:07 PM
Ok, look, I haven't been referred to as "fruit" since Bill called me something like that awhile back...  dangit.

And if I was fruit, I'd like to be the one next to Angelina in that phoato.

You know, instead of beeps motherboards ought to have like a whoopee cushion sound or siren or belch when they don't feel like working anymore...  It'd be more in line with their general anti-social attitude.

Ace; I used to be fun on date.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Carskick on Jul 12, 2006, 02:08 PM
or a wa--wa--wawawawawa
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Ace on Jul 12, 2006, 02:52 PM
Shoot Cars, I don't know what a wa wa waa wawawawa whatever is...   I used to own a wah wah pedal, but not anymore.  It sounds like Charlie Brown's parents at dinner.

Anyway, thanks again for digging through the single/dual core performance stuff.  I think for me I'd be best off with a fast single than a dual, since it's way future tense as far as anything really going there and I'm not going to be doing any juggling where I've got more than 1 thing going at once.

Ace; if that.  
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: scuzzy on Jul 12, 2006, 03:34 PM
I am going to pressure you into installing a software firewall anyway. All firewalls initially tend to be pests about what is okay and what isn't. Initially, any good firewall will block access to EVERYTHING until you tell it it's okay. No big deal - just a little bit of training. Within a few days the blocked access warnings will slow down and you'll have a system solidly protected from hacks.

As already mentioned, WinXP's firewall only monitors incoming traffic, not outbound. If a hacker tries to get in, XP's firewall kicks in to prevent it. If a program or aplet installs itself on your HDD, XP's firewall will do nothing to keep the crapware from sending information out. That's why a two-way firewall is important.

I've really gotten to like Comodo 2. I only installed it on my laptop, but I like it enough to replace ZoneAlarm on the rest of my systems. ZoneAlarm is a very effective firewall, but I'm sick of its enormous bloat.

Here's a write up by PC Magazine: Comodo 2 Firewall (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1969225,00.asp)
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Ace on Jul 12, 2006, 03:40 PM
Well, then YOU be the one to tell my Security Center it's been turned off.  Criminy, can that thing nag.

I've had about all the dang training I can stand, this month.  I'm currently awaiting a response from Lite-On to see if there's firmware or drivers that would relate to my DVD unit which does not appear on their list of firmware and drivers available... Sigh.  Phonetically, that's wawawawawawawawawwaa.

Ace; maybe a hacker could get in and fix this dang thing...
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: pat on Jul 12, 2006, 05:35 PM
I wonder what motherboard you plan on sticking that processor on? I?ve been going over the list of possibilities myself the last few days.

If money were no object, I think I would go with the  Gigabyte GA-M59SLI-S5 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813128011) that board sure has a lot to offer, but at $199 is a little more than I want to spend. The down side, as I see it, is that it will require new hard drives as there is only one IDE connection and I would use that for my DVD/RWs.

On the other hand I like the  Gigabyte GA-M55SLI-S4. (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813128321) It uses the nForce 4 chipset so it still offers 2 IDE channels and I could use a couple of my PATA drives and add a couple of SATA drives down the road, it costs about half of the M59, and has all of the features I really need. It doesn?t have the newer nvidia chipset, but I?m not exactly sure that is necessary.

I also like the Asus M2N-SLI  (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131013) and the  ABIT KN9 SLI  (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813127236) but again, both of those will require new drives, there is also the  ASUS M2V (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131024) that uses the VIA K8T890. It has 2 IDE channels, but skimps on other features.

I?d still like to see what is yet to come out with the ATI chipset as the reviews I?ve read with the reference board seem good. I?m not in a big hurry so I may just wait and see.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Ace on Jul 13, 2006, 04:38 AM
The Asus M2N-SLI.  Probably a Seagate 250 SATA3, or a Western Digital 250 gig hd.

Ace; and a firewall, or at least a nice fence.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: pat on Jul 13, 2006, 04:54 AM
Ok, nice choice.

pat: Good fences make good neighbors.
Title: Re:Shop for me
Post by: Ace on Jul 13, 2006, 08:52 AM
If I go Monarch it's that one or the wireless version (no) or an MSI...  

As the new owner of an old Asus I guess I should continue to be brand-loyal...  Although getting the pop-up "do you want to install Chinese to read this page correctly" isn't my preference...   Contacting Gigabyte or Lite-ON I want to say "hey, don't these guys know I'm American..?!  And we have enough trouble with English."

Ace; I do want to, but I figure they could care less.
Title: Re:YOUguysdoalltheworkandshopandthenI'llbuyit dangit
Post by: Neon on Jul 17, 2006, 10:00 PM
For your informatronation, AMD has announced official pricing (http://dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=3361) for bulk tray purchases. The prices are effective 24 July, as previously rumored. Note that these prices are for bulk purchases, so add ~$20-30 to get approximate retail pricing.

Bulk prices 7/24:

Athlon 64 3800+ (AM2) $109
Athlon 64 X2 3800+ (AM2) $149
Title: Re:YOUguysdoalltheworkandshopandthenI'llbuyit dangit
Post by: Ace on Jul 18, 2006, 04:26 AM
Thanks for the update; I was checking news to that effect.  Right now I can get the 3800+ single at $145, so that might go down a couple bucks...  If a dual core is $20 or 30 more or so that might make one appealing.  The motherboard dropped about $10 this last week.

Now, having read through the comparison as provided, IF a 3800+ is at 2.4 ghz and the 3800+ X2 is ALSO at 2.4 ghz then would the dual core perform as well/identically even at a single function...?  'Cause it seemed the single core benefit would be if it ran hotter and was only doing one thing.  

I ordered a USB keyboard and mouse; it is weird that there are NONE to be found retail.  Just either regular port or cordless...  I've got a USB hub and like that as a connect.  

Ace; I hate to wait, and I hate to rush.
Title: Re:YOUguysdoalltheworkandshopandthenI'llbuyit dangit
Post by: Neon on Jul 18, 2006, 06:52 AM
Ace,

In your hypothetical comparison, with all cores at the same frequency, the X2 dual core processor should process faster than the single core processor. Each core has 512 KB L2 cache memory, so the X2 has (2x 512KB)=1024KB L2, but the single core has only 512KB L2.

Essentially, you are comparing the 3800+ to the X2 4600+, which both run at 2.4 GHz.

What mouse/keyboard did you choose?
Title: Re:YOUguysdoalltheworkandshopandthenI'llbuyit dangit
Post by: Ace on Jul 18, 2006, 07:12 AM
Ok; what I was looking at was the Monarch Furia 2 configurator and it pulled up the specs for a 3800+ X2 that stated 2.4, same as the single core...  I just looked at the 4200 and 4600 and they're on track with what you said.  Now that 3800+ X2 no longer has the pop up detail box.

So; I'm thinking that a 3800+ single isn't going to go much below $145 next week.. I'd "need" to move up to a 4something X2 to get the 3800+'s speed.  So that would be still a chunk more.  At that rate, I'll stick with a 3800+ as the choice.  So go ahead now or see what Monday brings...? Ok, I just figured if I wait a week and save 10-20 bucks, that puts me a week behind too, so ordering it now would be like "express shipping" even with a slight price drop.  

I ordered a Logitech Media Elite keyboard and the plain black laser mouse, both USB. The ones I have now are dependable, and I don't want to do a wireless on the new table set up.  

Fans will be relieved to know I have KEPT my faux Scandinavian 3 level computer desk; it moved down the wall a few feet and shall hold my Canon printer and my Canon printer.  And probably a load of other stuff I slap on it for lack of having the motivation to put it away...  This, in addition to the new computer desk and my regular old desk desk.  

Ace "3 Desks" Jackson
Title: Re:YOUguysdoalltheworkandshopandthenI'llbuyit dangit
Post by: scuzzy on Jul 18, 2006, 11:25 AM
Your hypodermal comparisons are confusing me. Just pick a dang processor already. You?re gonna hose it up anyway. Don't worry about the prices, since they are volatile and subject to spontaneous eruptions and explosions. Sort of like you.

Get what you want right now. If you have to pay a little more, then go for it anyway. The fact is that you probably will not upgrade the CPU at a later date so long as keeps working properly - which it almost certainly will. You're not gonna want to spend $100+ on your antiquated system in 3 or 4 years, so "future proof" it as much as you can today.

The same advice goes for the video card. Just get what makes you happy now. I think the 7600GT is an excellent choice that should earn its keep for a long time. If you buy a motherboard in which can add a second card later, then that sounds like a good deal.

If I were building a system for myself today, I'd probably look at the Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Windsor ($297) or the Athlon 64 X2 4000+ Windsor ($357). I'm sure the X2 3800+ is no slouch, and it will likely give great performance for future games. If you can swing the extra bucks, then be the first on your block to get a 4000+ butt kicker.

I just noticed that HuevosNuevos (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Order=PRICE&Page=1&N=2000340343+50001028+1051720996&Submit=ENE&Nty=1&Manufactory=1028&SubCategory=343) is doing away with its OEM lineup for AMD. I wonder what that's about. I preferred the OEM versions since they were usually easier on the walrus. I mean wallet.

The odd thing is that AMD voids the retail CPU warranty if you use a better HSF than its anemic offering. I can hear it now, "We're sorry, but we cannot honor the warranty on our defective CPU because you used a far superior HSF compared to our well-known anemic offering. Had you used our cheap, worthless, noisy HSF, made of plastic and recycled crud, the CPU would have lasted only 1 month. However, since you paid good money (as opposed to bad money) for a far better HSF, the CPU lasted almost 3 years. As we see it, you got over so stop yer whining already."

And build your own dang system, dang it. You can do it and you'll be better off. If you have too many heartaches, just send the computer and new monitor to me at your expense. I'll fix it and keep it for myself.
Title: Re:YOUguysdoalltheworkandshopandthenI'llbuyit dangit
Post by: Ace on Jul 18, 2006, 12:35 PM
Just remember, when we stepped in it was to "Send in The Clowns" not "Send in The Suckers...".   I can't wait till you ask to borrow my new pc for the weekend.

Alright then, to appease you and Brad I'll go ahead and get the stuff.  I am going to go with the 3800+ single carb processor.  I do not want to step up to a higher number for the same clock speed just to have two of them sitting on each other.  I'd rather have 1 fast one than 2 lesser beings.

I did stop and pick up (yes; I actually paid for them) an Altec Lansing 3 piece speaker system.  BB had it on sale, plus I had a $10 local gift card.  I thought about going with a 5.1 or something more spread out but this appears to be higher quality and less footprint.  I've got Altecs now and they've been good.

I'll have all the peripherals in a short while, and just need a computer in the middle of them... I got a new Belkin surge plugger and a USB port, too.  I'm going to pack up every piece of the old for relative use.

Just a prediction; in a week or 2 when I get around to having it operational and install Call of Duty and I finally start to play it, again, and I get a crash and a blue screen and a Windows "Would you like us to send in this report, so we won't tell you what it means?" message you will hear the scream all the way to Colorado.  

At which point I shall chomp down on my Memtest floppy and watch my eyes roll to see if my memory is still functioning.

Once I confirm the final configuration I shall pose a summary statement of "well, you guys chose this."  Ironically, I've pretty much matched somebody's advice on every piece of the box.  And it's quite different from how I started envisioning it.

Ace; I am getting two DVD units and, no, you can't have one of them.
Title: Re:YOUguysdoalltheworkandshopandthenI'llbuyit dangit
Post by: scuzzy on Jul 18, 2006, 01:04 PM
Here's a deal that I will not allow you to refuse.

Order all the parts at your expense and have them sent to my house. I will assemble everything for a mere $50 and I will test the system for 3 years. At the end of the test period I will mail the completed build to your house, at your expense.

I will fully and unquestionably warrant the system for 90 days from the date I receive the parts.

Scuzzy; I just can't go wrong with this deal
Title: Re:YOUguysdoalltheworkandshopandthenI'llbuyit dangit
Post by: Ace on Jul 18, 2006, 02:56 PM
I shall look forward to buying it back from you when it's old and decrepit and you've got some dang fan with wires hanging all over, on it.  Yet beautifully packaged and documented, with an extreme amount of postage applied.

Doofus can't even fix his dang DVD player... I don't know why I listen to him.

You know, if that would mean YOU would have to call in to activate Windows I might actually take you up on it...

Ace; I just know I'm gonna order this stuff and someone's gonna go "Ace! You didn't go and order it yet you idiot, did you?!"


Title: Re:MOBO question on system build
Post by: Ace on Jul 19, 2006, 06:17 AM
Ok, guys.. help....

Was set to go with an Asus M2N-SLI Deluxe NForce 570 motherboard, but just jumped $16.  Also, now on the specs it says it has 2 PCI Express x16 graphics slots but one's at 16 and the others at 8, AND if you're running both with identical cards their BOTH at x8 (huh?).  I thought SLI boards were supposed to run both at x16, but have seen the one at 16/one at 8 mentioned but this is the first I've seen a BOTH at x8 statement... Isn't that kinda defeating the whole purpose?  

Other option is an MSI K9N SLI Platinum board; it states the x16/other at x8 if used...  It does not have the "cool and quiet" build of the Asus and doesn't look to have that cooling pipeline... My impression was MSI does boards on the cheaper end, for mass production.  Any thoughts between them, or on the whole video card speed thing with SLI?

Danke

Ace; back to square 0
Title: Re:MOBO question on system build
Post by: Neon on Jul 19, 2006, 06:37 AM
Since there are a limited number of PCI-E lanes available from the chipset, all of the first SLI-capable mobos had to set up that way - 16 lanes to one card, or 2x8 lanes to two cards in SLI. Some of the most recent mobos (nForce 590 SLI and nForce 4
SLI x16) are capable of a full 2x16 lanes to two cards in SLI.

However, if you are going with 7600's, I don't think you will have problems or notice a performance hit with two x8 slots in SLI (not 100% certain of that, so maybe wait for other opinions)
Title: Re:MOBO question on system build
Post by: Ace on Jul 19, 2006, 09:52 AM
Thanks Neo; from my research it appears SLI might be of benefit but it depends on how the screen is "balanced" (if 2 cards are taking turns or each taking half of each frame) plus if it's performance or quality to be improved.  It would appear SLI is only noticeably better IF you're getting to higher screen resolutions (1600...) under demanding conditions.  Which I may not venture into, anyway.  And it's possible SLI could be slower, as with dual core processors, due to the inherent lag processing time if there's no real need or benefit based on what's it's handling.  Also, one higher level single card can outperform 2 mediocre ones, but it depends on what's being processed.

I only found one "test" of a single card against identical same cards, but it cut off since it's a member site.  If I could find a comparison of one 7600GT PCI-E against 2 in SLI that's really what I'm wanting to confirm.  I realize the performance boost might be 30% or 50% (that it's not going to double the performance, just because 2 cards are sharing the load).  

Will look for more on this; maybe I'm not going with SLI after all, but just the AM2 single slot x16.
OR this just in; also have option of Abit Fatal1ty AN9 32X nF 590 SLI with looks to have the TWO x16 option, for $30 more (worth it, over a 570 nForce?).

Ac;e what comes before "0"..
Title: Re:MOBO question on system build
Post by: Neon on Jul 19, 2006, 10:53 AM
Ace,

Here is a quicky review that has some benchmarks of the 7600GT single card vs. SLI: XFX 7600GT XXX Edition Review Review (http://www.nvnews.net/reviews/xfx_7600gt_xxx/index.shtml)
Although the reviewer is quite entusiastic, the common wisdom is that you should only go SLI with mid-range cards IF you are really quite sure that you will be adding the second card within ~12 months. Otherwise, just get the best single card you can afford. The reasoning is that there will be a 8800 Ultra XXX (or whatever) available by that time, which will likely smoke the current mid-range SLI setup for less cashola than you coughed up for the two mid-range cards.

By the way, I like your keyboard/mouse selection. Not too fancy, but you should be well served.

Doesn't minus zero come before 0?
Title: Re:MOBO question on system build
Post by: scuzzy on Jul 19, 2006, 11:06 AM
The x8/x16 SLI thingy issue can be easily resolved. Just get two motherboards and solder them together.

Just make sure you mate the northbridge fans by connecting the black wire to the black wire, and the red wire to the red wire. This should be easy enough, even for a jester.

The best thing is that this will allow you to double the amount of floppy drives in your system.

Scuzzy; you'll thank me later for this
Title: Re:MOBO question on system build
Post by: Ace on Jul 19, 2006, 12:00 PM
First you'd need to send me a used soldering gun, as I have none.

Neo, thanks for the article.  Today the CPU DID drop; AMD 64 3800+ at $115, down from $145.  So it's basically a wash with that drop and the Asus price increase.  

Since I don't know if I'll ever bother with SLI, but would rather not lose the potential, I'll probably go with the Asus board.  Going strictly PCI-E without SLI would naturally decide never to go that route, and going with the Abit board would require a commitment to doing it (to make the 590 worthwhile at the added cost).  Seems a decent dual card configuration (like two 7600's) is more the point, than just doubling a lesser card OR overdoing it by doubling a high performance card that doesn't really NEED the SLI trickery.

Now, if MS is going to cut prices on XP by Monday...

Ace; -1
Title: Re:MOBO question on system build
Post by: scuzzy on Jul 19, 2006, 08:56 PM
No, I'm not sending you any of my guns. Get your own, dang it.

If you go with an ASUS mobo, make sure the RAM you select is on their approved list to avoid compatability problems. I tried to download the user manual for the ASUS M2N-SLI Deluxe through here (http://support.asus.com/download/download.aspx?SLanguage=en-us), but as usual ASUS's download site is broken.

For however good ASUS mobos are, their website is the pits.

Scuzzy; here... hold this target for me  :o
Title: Re:Ace's done deal
Post by: Ace on Jul 20, 2006, 04:50 AM
It is a counter-intuitive website.  And slow, on dial up.  I could not find an "approved memory" reference; the board takes DDR2 800 which is what I'm getting to match up.  

I went with "the middle thing."  Going just PCI-E would prevent ever having the means to double the video card, so that struck me as limiting.  Going with the SLI 590 set would compel me to "have" to add one later, to justify the technology and added cost... so I went with the 570 version SLI to be able to do it if I feel like it later and find a 2nd card at a bargain but not feel I have to...

Everything is on the way, so I'll report once it's working.  Unless I find it doesn't, at which point I shall sit very quietly, for some time.

Ace; and beep.  
Title: Re:Ace's done deal
Post by: Bill on Jul 20, 2006, 05:40 AM
So, dude, did you decide to save the $75 and DIY?
Title: Re:Ace's done deal
Post by: Ace on Jul 20, 2006, 06:02 AM
No.  I figure plugging it in and installing Windows and loading in all the (stuff) I have from the old is enough work.  And since Pat recommended Monarch I feel I must appease him.

Mostly, I don't want to do an OJT with these pieces at these prices.  And don't want to spend week(s) while my learning curve rises.

Neither Asus or Patriot listed the new board specifically, so I emailed tech support at Patriot who confirmed they've got that board running with the 800 memory and there's no problems.

So I shall now remove myself from the System Build forum and scamper off to the living room, or the wet bar downstairs.

Dud
Title: Re:Ace's done deal
Post by: Bill on Jul 20, 2006, 03:42 PM
Just for fun, you should email Asus and ask them about the memory.

Just for fun.

Bill; I hate surprizes.
Title: Re:Ace's done deal
Post by: scuzzy on Jul 20, 2006, 05:17 PM
I finally got the stupid ASUS manual to download. Geez, it only took about 20 tries.

Page 2-13 & 2-14 show the RAM "Qualified Vendors List". I could not find Patriot on the list, but found references to several RAM models made by Kingston, Samsung, Micron, Crucial, and a few others I've never heard of.

I don't know what this means, other than Patriot is not on the list. I've read several complaints about ASUS mobos being very picky about RAM that is not on the approved list. It could be that Patriot RAM will work perfectly fine, or it could mean that you might have issues. I simply don't know.

Anyway, I'll see if I can copy the list here.

EDIT: I tried, but I couldn't find an easy way of copying the list
Title: Re:Ace's done deal
Post by: Bill on Jul 20, 2006, 07:28 PM
Just for fun, you should email Asus about the memory.

Just for fun.

Bill!
Title: Re:Ace's done deal
Post by: Neon on Jul 20, 2006, 08:38 PM
My Asus anecdote:

I had (and still have) problems with the Suspend to RAM/Suspend to HDD functions of both of my Asus boards, so emailed them about the issues. I received a canned response months later, by which time I had updated the BIOS and done some more troubleshooting, so I emailed an update. Several months later, they sent me another canned response. I tried again, but no response yet, going on 2 years. It may yet arrive, if Google will let it through the Great Firewall.

They host user forums at their website, but they're only usable when the Asus website is working. Of course, the site is quite slow, and VERY, VERY, VERY UNSTANDARD HTML. I think it was written with FrontPage 91. >:(  Anyway, the Asus forums are mostly full of people screaming about how the latest BIOS version didn't fix whatever is wrong with their system. They don't appear to be moderated, but occasionally there is useful information, if you can find somebody that knows what they're talking about, and you have the patience for the page to load each topic.
Title: Re:Ace's done deal
Post by: scuzzy on Jul 20, 2006, 10:33 PM
My biggest bone of contention with ASUS is their next to useless website.

ASUS makes some fine motherboards, but their poor customer service and poor website interface may get me to look at another manufacturer next time around. I've purchased 3 ASUS motherboards, and they have served me well. But it is frustrating to no end to try to get anything off of their site. I'm not sure that it's worth the heartache.

Scuzzy; Ace! you haven't placed your order yet, have you? Aw geez you bonehead, you should have waited.
Title: Re:Ace's done deal
Post by: pat on Jul 22, 2006, 06:23 AM
I?ve used 3 Asus motherboards in the last 2 years for builds for friends/family. I hadn?t had any trouble getting anything from their website but, I haven?t tried lately.

The only problem I?ve had was with an AV8 Deluxe. The integrated sound would crackle when playing DVD movies. The addition of a separate sound card cured the problem though and otherwise its been fine.



Title: Re:Ace's done deal
Post by: Carskick on Jul 22, 2006, 11:39 AM
I agree, ASUS has a very mediocre site. However, most of my HPs have had ASUS boards, and I just got the ASUS board for my desktop. All have never had issue. My friend also used his in his build. I tried Epox, and many swear by them, and I liked it, but mine had a few minor booting issues, and it died 8 months in. However, RMAing it was easy and moderately fast.

MSI, Asus, Epox, DFI, and Gigabyte are all boards to consider.
Title: Re:Ace's done deal
Post by: scuzzy on Jul 22, 2006, 11:46 AM
I have to agree that ASUS makes great boards. Although I would consider something different next time, it would probably be very difficult not to go with another ASUS.

Of the last 3 ASUS boards I purchased, one was DOA. It was an A8V Deluxe, which NewEgg exchanged with minimal fuss. Aside from that, the boards have performed exceptionally well, which is what one wants.

Still, it would be nice if ASUS would get its act together with its rotten website. I too have been able to get what I need, at least most of the time, but rarely without hassle.
Title: Re:Ace's done deal
Post by: Ace on Jul 22, 2006, 12:10 PM
Well, it's going to be an Asus.  ASUS.  ASUS. However big they are. I would figure Abit would be in the top tier, per what I've seen and Neon's early advice.  Just happens that the Asus fit the configuration and price I was looking for.  Also, am now using an Asus which has salvaged my "old" unit.  Just as an FYI, my CPU is now running at 59 C where before it was at 68 or so as "normal."  Since nothing else changed I'd credit the board.  I'm not familiar with DFI boards; I did look at an MSI but it didn't seem to compare as far as design (didn't offer the AMD cool design and didn't have the fanless cooling pipeline).  

I will say I'm pleased with Patriot Memory's site and CS; got an immediate personal response from my inquiry on compatibility.  I've got my peripherals all laid out, just awaiting a computer to connect them to...

In looking over my old Gigabyte board compared to the ASUS, I'd say the Gigabyte had maybe a better look and design and layout but the Asus seems better as far as quality and materials... Gigabyte seemed to have a farther ranging BIOS tweaking capability, although that sure didn't help me in playing around with it...  Simple is probably preferable, for that.

Ace; the mailman just came; maybe there's a computer in my mailbox.


Title: Re:Ace's done deal
Post by: pat on Jul 22, 2006, 12:17 PM
I?ve been happy with my Gigabyte board and would certainly not hesitate to purchase another.

Their website can be a little finicky at times also though.

Title: Re:Ace's done deal
Post by: Ace on Jul 22, 2006, 01:06 PM
I was happy with mine too, when it worked.  They were typically aloof as seems to be the norm, with a "no, we've got nothing to offer to help you figure out what's wrong why don't you swap out parts and see what happens..."
this just in:

Did get a response from Asus on the memory validation; said they don't do that, and to check with the memory maker and gave tips on that... Since I already confirmed with Patriot that they're using my choice in the ASUS board that's that.  You have to wade through the "group" Q/A-forum stuff on the ASUS website but there is a direct tech support/CS contact means.


It seems like a lot of these companies are Asian, or something.  I think I'm going to stick with just American-made parts from now on.  Like Patriot memory, and Altec-Lansing speakers which are from Denver.

Genuine Dang American parts.  And Microsoft stuff; it's the best.

Ace; I asked them and they said it was.
Title: Re:Ace's done deal
Post by: pat on Jul 23, 2006, 08:10 AM
Huh?

Heck, I probably wouldn?t have ever gone with the Gigabyte if it weren?t for your recommendation. Can?t remember if I ever said thanks though, so, hey, thanks for that.

Title: Re:Ace's done deal
Post by: Ace on Jul 23, 2006, 09:07 AM
Wha?

Shoot, you're the one who didn't tell me they break in 4 years.  And I have a sneaking suspicion they aren't American made.  I thought they were Greek, due to the name, but it's almost like they're made overseas or something going by the Gigasite.  You know, I don't do the volume you guys do... I've only owned 3, once I get another one, and I don't even know what board the Quantex had.  Back then, they didn't talk about that but just the other components.  I think the chipset was a keypoint, but nothing deeper.

I remember I picked the Gigabyte from a board comparison on Tom's Hardware, back then.  It came out favorably, along with an Asus, and the Asus cost more so there ya go.  Now that I'm in a close personal relationship with the Asus staff, I figure I may as well try a new one by them.  Going by the original sales invoice, this Asus board I'm using now cost a LOT more than the new one...  Isn't that weird how technology gets better and cheaper?  Sorta like Genuine American Made Cars.  They get cheaper.  Well, at least when  they aren't selling, which is any day that ends in "y."  And cheaper made, using our leading technology.  I know that the labor costs, due to health care coverage, so they should probably consider not offering health coverage on cars.

And thanks for recommending Monarch; they're good guys.  You know, that came from me almost buying from ABS Pc when they did a bait and switch pricing on me, and then I was looking at another provider and Scuzzy pointed out their lousy Resellers rating plus the fact that they were the same stinking company(s).  If I lived in Georgia, I'd probably just stop by the shop and buy stuff.  I could even go visit Whiz and see if his house ever settled down.

I'll poast phoatos and a performance evaluation once I get set.  I'm going to keep the old one up and running until I'm sure I've transferred everything and am set.

Ace; your welcome.
Title: Re:Ace's done deal
Post by: scuzzy on Jul 23, 2006, 11:06 AM
Huh?

Bologna. Baloney. BallOfHoney. AceSUS does too tell you which memory is approved. It's printed in their super-hard-to-download manual. The list used to be on their hard-to-access-website when I bought my A8V Deluxe.

Scuzzy; I don't make this stuff up. If you had a few hours to attempt to download the manual you'd see for yourself.
Title: Re:Ace's done deal
Post by: Ace on Jul 23, 2006, 01:34 PM
Remember, I'm on dialup.  We're talking weeks, here.  Not that we'd know what time it gets dark in Indiana.  (see "tomorrow").

No, they don't change the dang manual when new cutting edge American-Made Memory like Patriot comes out with their Brand New Cutting Edge technology of 800

hold it.  I think 1000 just came out.  Dangit.

Anyway, I converse with ASUS on a daily basis or so, and they said you must've filled in a bogus list price on that motherboard because there's no way one would cost that much.  Now.  Also, see if they have a DVD player you can download.

And this from the guy who struggled to seat his memory... I can not only seat it, I can fry the dang DIMM slot while I'm at it.

Later, I am going to download Encyclopedia Brittanica to see what's new since the last edition.

Ace; I could probably go with World Book and save some time.
Title: Re:Ace's done deal
Post by: Neon on Jul 23, 2006, 02:06 PM
Price cuts are here!

AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Dual-Core 512K Per Core 90nm (Socket AM2) (Retail Box-w-Fan) (http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=120994) $158

Did you buy a CPU yet?
Title: Re:Ace's done deal
Post by: scuzzy on Jul 23, 2006, 03:10 PM
Ace! Dang it!

I told you that you should have waited.

Scuzzy; you never listen
Title: Re:Ace's done deal
Post by: Ace on Jul 23, 2006, 04:59 PM
Of course I didn't "wait" you maroon.  I got a single core 2.4 ghz for $115; who the heck would want two 2.0 ghz cores for $43 more?!

Ace; that'd be nuts.
Title: Re:Ace's done deal
Post by: Bill on Jul 23, 2006, 07:20 PM
The SQUIRRELS would love it.  

Bill
Title: Re:Ace's done deal
Post by: Bill on Jul 30, 2006, 10:52 AM
So, is there an update?  Progress?  Can't open the cardboard box?

I know, you can't find the plug.

Bill
Title: Re:Ace is a done deal
Post by: scuzzy on Aug 03, 2006, 10:35 PM
Hey, you jester doofus, you...

Make sure you look at this: Scot Finnie's Best Antivirus of 2006 (http://www.scotsnewsletter.com/83.htm#avv)
Title: Re:Ace is a done deal
Post by: Ace on Aug 04, 2006, 04:49 AM
It would seem... Apparently I did take your advice as I am waiting.

I've received some boxes:  Madden 2006, WordPerfect 12, Kaspersky v6, but not a really big box.  

Antivirus products seem to be popular for a day, or so.  Or they get a version right, then change it so it isn't.  I am of the opinion that Symantec is much like AOL; for people who just don't want to bother and want someone or something to do it all for them (to them).  Norton must have been named for Ed Norton.  At least the old unit is virus free... Well, according to Norton, I guess.  

ace; this stupid Russian or Eastern Euro or whatever dang product better work, dangit.
Title: Re:Ace is a done deal
Post by: Buffalo2102 on Aug 04, 2006, 07:07 AM
Despite the title of this thread, I am guessing that this still far from a "done deal"?

Buff; another Pizza Poast
Title: Re:Ace is a done deal
Post by: Ace on Aug 04, 2006, 09:27 AM
There seems to be movement today, and things are finally progressing.

And, no, that is in no way a reference to the pizza I had for lunch yesterday.  Geez.

Strangely, prices have remained the same for the last couple weeks, except for the video card which jumped $10 (so glad I got that in, before).  During the interim, I would think an invigorating discussion of pizza would be a fine way to spend the afternoon.

Ace; next I'll probably get some stupid link sent to me on "Bob's Top Pizzas of 2006" review
Title: Re:Ace is a done deal
Post by: Bill on Aug 06, 2006, 07:02 AM
Here's the best I could find:
http://www.we8there.com/search_results.php

Seems the magical, mythical land...isn't big on pizza.  

'Course that's understandable anywhere that streets are named Grape and margaritas are popular.

Bill
Title: Re:Ace is a done deal
Post by: Ace on Aug 08, 2006, 07:54 AM
Well, thanks for sending all that info on pizza but the dang poast is about my dang new computer.  It's being tested, as much as my patience, right now.

Hey; does anyone have recommendations on a lovely downloadable motherboard/CPU stuff monitor?  I really liked Everest Home but now it appears to be no longer free (and I've had glitches trying to download the new free temporary version).  I think I've got Motherboard Monitor on the old Monarch now, which seems ok; had that on an old PC World disc.  I liked how Everest would drill down into every component and list it and categorize things as a "one stop shop" on any hardware item.

Ace; hope I'm not monitored.
Title: Re:Ace is a done deal
Post by: Neon on Aug 08, 2006, 08:34 AM
It's unfortunate that Everest is no longer free, although at least it's only $20. Sisoft SANDRA is very similar, but it's a little more expensive.

Motherboard Monitor does not offer as much hardware info, but is good for temp, fan, and voltage monitoring. It is no longer in development, but it still works on many mobos - you'll just have to try it to find out.

SpeedFan and hmonitor are similar in function to MM, so you might give those a try.

Check the disk that came with your mobo. Many mobo manufacturers include a monitoring app, although I think most of them are poorly designed.
Title: Re:Ace is a done deal
Post by: scuzzy on Aug 08, 2006, 12:32 PM
Do a Google search: Everest Home Edition (http://www.google.com/search?as_q=&num=100&hl=en&newwindow=1&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=everest+home+edition&as_oq=&as_eq=&lr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=&as_rights=&safe=images)

You can download the free version 2.2 through MajorGeeks.com, as well as others.
Title: Jerk is mousy
Post by: Ace on Aug 08, 2006, 01:42 PM
I had tried the link here, and then gone directly to Everest (Home) Home, but hadn't tried a second third pary link.  6th party, as it were.  I'll go with that once I get everything else in place.

I am not going to "Google" it, however, since you already provided a link.  

Ace; I wonder what happens if you google Google?
Title: Re:Jerk is mousy
Post by: Bill on Aug 12, 2006, 03:29 PM
You get 100k refernces to 'google.'  Wha'dathink?  Almost as many references as you get when you google 'Jester.'

I wonder what would happen with 'doofus?'  To borrow a phrase....

I thought this was about pizza?

Bill
Title: Re:Jerk is mousy
Post by: scuzzy on Aug 17, 2006, 11:01 AM
Hey Doof, what's up with the computer?

I thought I'd be nice by offering to buy it from you. By the time you get the computer it will be outdated and worth about $39, which is what I'll give you. I'd pay the extra 39 cents for the postage, but I'd just have to deduct it back out for mailing the check.

Tell the Monarch flutterby people to go ahead and ship it directly to me. I'll send the check as soon as I receive it. Really, I will.

Scuzzy; I'll just defrag it and sell it back to Ace for a handsome profit. Then I'll laugh all the way to PayPal.
Title: Re:Jerk is mousy
Post by: Ace on Aug 18, 2006, 04:23 AM
Actually, "what's up" with the computer is that it is.  I'm poasting from it as we speak.  Well, keyboard.

It actually did arrive wonderfully packaged from a lean and not particularly thick legged FedEx lady Wednesday.  Sleek and piano black-like in its Sonata II splendor.  It promptly went into a boot disk failure mode immediately upon starting up that evening...  I attempted to install Windows and it collapsed inward like a black hole, stating it could not recognize that it had any hard drive whatsoever.

I remember seeing one when I peeked inside upon its arrival, so I wanted to tell it that I did think there was one.

I emailed and posted (sic) at the Monarch Support forum, and got not much of a response at either except finally a few civilians there and later my favorite (only?) tech saying check the SATA cable.  Being familiar only with gut wrenching IDE cables, I doubted it could come loose that easily but lo, the red rascal had pulled up slightly from the WD unit.  And then, it booted.

I had to uninstall MacAfee, which had been stuck in it, as I had no interest in that.  Loaded Kaspersky, which got nearly through a required update and then blew the last item.  On 2nd try, it took.  The rest of the night was moving Earthlink from a simple starter connection (for the antivirus upgrade) that didn't show anything weblike to my disk with the original version to a download of Total Access that took over an hour to this AM, where at least things look more like I thought.

Pretty much nothing else is in it; the HD look is a sliver in a big ball of nothing.
Only other immediate weirdness is a "You don't have SLI" statement from my nVidia Settings on startup, like it's expecting a 2nd card to drop from the sky any moment.  And some pop up firewall thingy just squealed at me, but as far as I know I'm just on the Windows one unless Kaspersky anti-v also includes one.  

Lots of software to come.  It's gonna take awhile...  But at least everything is glowing in a blue aura; the unit, my Altecs, the LG...  I'll poast a summary statement on the whole affair.

Ace; shoot, $39 covers about 3/4 the cost of the stupid $50 DVI cable I had to get.
Title: Re:Jerk is mousy
Post by: Bill on Aug 18, 2006, 07:42 AM
Hey, congratulations.  At least now you've got something new to complain about. Splendiferous, or not.  

Good luck with the XP firewall, ha.

Bill
Title: Re:Jerk is mousy
Post by: Buffalo2102 on Aug 18, 2006, 07:50 AM
Only other immediate weirdness is a "You don't have SLI" statement from my nVidia Settings on startup, like it's expecting a 2nd card to drop from the sky any moment.  
You can get rid of that by following nVidias' advice here.

NVIDIA SLI Solution Thingy (http://nvidia.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/nvidia.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=760&p_created=1137546131&p_sid=GAn_*Rai&p_lva=&%20p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9NDgmcF9wcm9kcz0yJnB%20fY2F0cz02MCZwX3B2PTEuMjsyLnUwJnBfY3Y9MS42MDsyLnUwJnBfc2VhcmNoX3R5cGU9YW5zd2Vycy5zZWFyY2hfZm5sJnBfcGFnZT0xJnBfc2VhcmNoX3RleHQ9c2xpIGRpc2FibGVkIG1lc3NhZ2U) (Link edited by Scuzzy)

Buff;  some shortcut!
Title: Ace's Done Deal
Post by: Ace on Aug 18, 2006, 08:35 AM
Bill; for real.  Buff; thank you!  I just thought I'd hunt through the settings and find it, but obviously it's above and beyond the range of reason.  

I've never had XP firewall actually "do" anything, so I'm thinking the pop ups I got weren't from it.  I can't see that Kaspersky has a firewall anywhere, and I couldn't just keep the MacAfee one (either had to trash the whole package or keep it all).  I'll see if it squeals and shows, again.

Ace; probably I'll add a 2nd card at some point and it won't recognize it...
Title: Re:Ace's Done Deal
Post by: Ace on Aug 22, 2006, 04:50 AM
Well, all's well that ends.

In summation, the carefully selected Monarch Furia has arrived and is up and running.  Well, down near my right foot, and running.

Some might disparage me from not assembling the parts and building it myself, but after ripping out my old mobo and installing the one Scuzzy so graciously had lying in his yard with the appliances I really had enough of sticking my head into a computer case.  Especially with the front panel itty bitty connectors, which do require me to get up close and personal to even attempt to see what goes where.  

The Monarch took about a month to get here after ordering; it took awhile to get going, then jumped into their 7 stage build process, got to the end, went backward with a configuration issue, plowed ahead, delayed, shipped.  Arrived DOA, with a disk error unable to load Windows. Discovered the SATA cable worked loose from the WD HDD that it failed to recognize, which allowed it to take off and fly.  So I did actually assemble part.  And have had my head in it a few times.

It's an Antec Sonata II case; nice that the side panel lifts off, and no screws.  The inside is surprisingly sparse; there's a hood over the CPU and cards, and the other end is covered over the power supply and bundle.  I verified the card and memory were as ordered.  It's got a steady swoosh; kept with the single standard fan per Scuzzy (and Antec's) advice. Otherwise:
* Cost of parts matched New Egg; since order and purchase things have gone up...  eVGA 7600GT card went up $10, case a couple bucks, CPU went down a few bucks but now back to price I paid; 3800+ single core.  Did not do the dual core thing as a 3800+ X2 was $40 more and to get the same mhz it really would have cost more. Thanks to Cars and Neon for going over the core rates and productivity.  
*Where I put my money: Memory.  Got 2GB (two 1Gig) DDR2 800 Patriot ("gaming") sticks.  No sense with DDR2 to start cheap and then have to replace 2 sticks. Plus figure that should be a primary boost to performance. Cost on those has jumped $15 since I bought.
* Where I didn't: single video card. Will watch for same card to drop in price and probably try the SLI track later.  I installed Madden06 and Call of Duty.  Call of Duty plays as expected; maxing out the video and it cruises along. Madden looks like TV at maximum resolution.
* Biggest suprise: I really like the 19" LCD LG monitor. I got a 4ms/high contrast model, and it actually looks 3D.  Much brighter and more vibrant than the old MAG CRT.  Haven't touched a thing on it; naturally used the DVI connect instead of the VGA (and had to buy that cable, for $50 - 10 ft).
* As a WordPerfect fan picked up WP Office 12 for $20 online (incl shipping). Smooth operation; I had WP8 from back in the Quantex days that had glitches so glad to dump that. Also have MS Office installed too.
* Thanks to Buff got the SLI balloon to burst. Amazing how quickly this boots.  Naturally, doesn't increase dial up speed too much...
* Thanks to Scuzzy did get Everest Home from Major Geeks; also have the CPU ID from our site installed.  Running in the 40's...  So was the old machine, at the end, so quite an improvement with the ASUS board Scuzzy shipped at exhorbitant costs.  Bless his heart.
* Went with Kaspersky antivirus.  Seems just fine.
* Have a Sony duo for DVD/CD play and burning. Have burned CDs but haven't tried a DVD yet.
* Since ASUS worked to bring back the old one from the dead went with the M2N SLI Deluxe for this one. Reasonable price, at a mid point between the cheapest AM2 and the ultra versions $50 more.  "Cool and Quiet."

So that's how it all turned out.  I got the old Monarch clean and tidy and humming, and gave it to my brother in law.  So thanks to Saoirse and Johnny and Scuzzy and Bill and Pat's offer of a rental unit and Leo from Monarch and all who helped with that repair.  And Neon and Pat and Brad and Cars and Scuzzy and Bill and all who pointed out parts and features and advised on what to get on a new one; as you see I used someone's advice on every part.  Except for Scuzzy, who said to wait.  That was just nuts, but the rest was really sound and helpful so thank you.

Ace; zoom zoom



Title: Re:Ace's Done Deal
Post by: Bill on Aug 22, 2006, 05:27 AM
I'm glad it all worked.  Now I'm envious.

Bill; what's a little help between......
Title: Re:Ace's Done Deal
Post by: Ace on Aug 22, 2006, 06:19 AM
Well, talk to Scuzzy and see what he has back in the supply room. Just watch out for the exhor

Criminy, I hate spelling exhorbitant. I don't even know if I got that right.  Anyway, if I ever get a gun I think Call of Duty will help me pick one out.  I don't know if I'd rather go with the Thompson submachine gun or a rocket launcher.  I do know I'd rather parachute in behind the Nazi troops guarding the beach that come right up from the water on D Day like you do in Medal of Honor.  There was no way I was gonna get off that beach.  I guess a lot of guys probably had that same feeling.

Ace; for real.  Of course, RTCW taught me how to take out a giant mechanized ghoul Nazi.
Title: Re:Ace's Done Deal
Post by: Neon on Aug 22, 2006, 07:24 AM
Well, talk to Scuzzy and see what he has back in the supply room. Just watch out for the exhor

Criminy, I hate spelling exhorbitant.
Huh? exhorbitant ___________ ? Some sentence somewhere lost its noun. Unless exhorbitant is now a noun. It probably refers to an orbital body that is no longer orbiting.

Anyway, I am somewhat mollified that Scuzzy has something exhorbitant, or else has an exhorbitant. I thought for sure you were about to type exhorcism, and that Scuzzy would have been renting out his supply room to exhorcists for the performance of exhorcisms. OK. Glad we sorted that out.

Oh yeah, congratulations on the new system! I hope it serves you well for years to come.
Title: Re:Ace's Done Deal
Post by: Ace on Aug 22, 2006, 08:50 AM
I don't know; I doubt if Scuzzy exhorcizes.  Exorcises. Whatever they do.  I've never exorcised a demon, but I have hacked a lot of them up in Diablo.  

I think he has an orbital body, for the most part.

Thanks again for all your recommendations; if anything goes wrong I'm going to blame you guys anyway.

Ace; but not for the hard drive cable.  I blame Monarch for not gluing it on right.
Title: Re:Ace's Done Deal
Post by: scuzzy on Aug 22, 2006, 03:14 PM
I would like to disparage Ace for not assembling the parts and building the computer himself.

I told him several times he'd be better off building it himself. But did he listen? Noooooo... Ace never listens to me because he has abnormally big feet that he uses to go to MAC-Donalds. Then he gets fat, round, stubby, little fingers from eating there that prevent him from plugging in his computer.

If Ace had built the dang thing himself he could have at least enjoyed it for a day or two before it became an ancient dinosaur, sort of like himself.

Scuzzy; an Aceosaur is a scary thought
Title: Re:Ace's Done Deal
Post by: Bill on Aug 22, 2006, 03:18 PM
But they're so dang old, you could probably outrun them.  And, I'm told, they have funny, as in 'odd',little toes that prevent them from running very fast anyway.

Bill
Title: Re:Ace's Done Deal
Post by: Ace on Aug 22, 2006, 03:26 PM
I already ran this morning, and won, so I'm not going to go out again today.

And my fat little fingers are not that dang chubby, dangit.  Hold it.. oh, shoot.

Like a Scuzzyopterix is gonna set any land speed records.  Look, I'll have you know that dang thing wasn't obsolete until I got that cable fixed and it actually booted up.  Until then, it was pretty darn near cutting edge.  For the price.

Look, if this ASUS has a northbridge, and a fan on it, then I think I coulda figured that one out.  But I'm not saying I'm gonna put the battery right-side in or connect front panel stuff or the really high tech aspects.  I did get both printers installed, so I'm pretty much ahead of the game there.  And was able to blow up all the tanks, so far.

Ace; and Kaspersky said everything is ok, if anyone's asking.
Title: Re:Ace's Done Deal
Post by: Buffalo2102 on Aug 23, 2006, 04:44 AM
I'm real glad that Ace didn't build it himself.  He bought a pre-built PC and this thread still ran into 5 pages - imagine if he had built it himself!  The Pizza poast would pale into insignificance.

Buff; mmmmmm pizza.
Title: Re:Ace's Done Deal
Post by: Ace on Aug 23, 2006, 07:40 AM
Oh, you just wait.

Look, why is it everydangtime I get to poasting about this dang pc you or Bill or other people named "B" start switching the dang topic to pizza?!  Criminy, like every dang poast has to come back to pizza.  What's so dang wrong with changing the subject to the auto industry or Paramount not signing Tom Cruise or what SouthPark's gonna do with that one or Whiz's addiction to isopropyl alcohol or who else is plugged up or where the heck JA went to this time or if Pat's ok?  Geez Louise.

Or if Castro was abducted by aliens and had a probe, done.  Something like that.

Ace; I'm probably gonna do 2 more pages just on "why is Microsoft trying to patch my dang Office" and "where in the heck is all the clip art for WP12?"
Title: Re:Ace's Done Deal
Post by: Bill on Aug 24, 2006, 10:26 AM
You know, if you find the dang clip art soon, you'll be able to poast pizza pictures before this dang thread dies.  Hurry up, dangit.