Possible new computer

[pat]

Hi Cars,

Nice components, should be a great build.

As to the case (from other poast).
Most likely you will have to change the back I/O panel, it pries out easily and the new one will snap right in. What I do is to align the motherboard up and see where the stand offs are needed. Then insert them, I didn?t use the center one with just the pin without a screw, I replaced it with a normal stand off. Then sort out the bag of screws, only one size of the screws will go into the stand offs easily, those are the ones you want. If you have a full size board like the one I had you just have to lay it in at an angle until you get past the fan and slide it into the back I/O panel, then just tighten down the screws, not too tight though, just snug.

Good luck with it, will be looking forward to some pictures.

[Carskick]

Thanks for all of the info, Pat. I read the info on the PSU from your other poast as well. Good to know. I hope to get this thing ordered soon. I'm sick of seeing my new Antec case/PSU sit there collecting dust.

[pat]

You are welcome.  :)

[Whizbang]

Bill, my hard drive is IDE, but I think I'll stick with ribbon cables for now. They're included anyways, and I'll try to tuck them away somehow. If they become too much of an interference, I will switch them out after the fact, but for now I'll stick with the ribbons. Thanks for the advice though.

I now simply fold mine in a "w" from one end to the other and place pull ties around them.  That also allows bending them in more drastic angles than with the flattened cables.

[Carskick]

Whizbang, I think I know what you mean. I'll experiment and see how they best shrink. I was also thinking I could twist them, and maybe they would become round.

[Whizbang]

Twisting might cause separation of strands,  After folding a cable and pull-tying it, you can also velcro it to the bottom of the case and then bend it at a virtual 90-degree angle up to the drive/drives.  That gives a much cleaner look.  You also can use colored electrical tape instead of the pull ties.  That gives a more sleek appearance.  I have gone both routes, but I experiment with so much that I still have a lot of wiring.

[Carskick]

Thanks for the ideas. I guess it'll primarily depend on how long the cables are.

[freelance]

Whizbang, I think I know what you mean. I'll experiment and see how they best shrink. I was also thinking I could twist them, and maybe they would become round.

thats what i do with my floppy cable, its very flexible, and after wrapping in insulating tape (you can use sellotape but it doesnt look as good) there is no stress on the cable and the strands will not seperate

[scuzzy]

Cars, I used to prefer round cables, now I prefer sticking with the ribbon. If you go back to the photos of the system I built for my daughter, you'll see that the ribbon allowed for a very clean layout that I could not have achieved with rounded cables. (Click here to see photos)

I also threw out the rounded cables from my main system, and used the same "W" method suggested by Whizbang. The result was a cleaner system.

[Carskick]

I went and looked back at those pics, scuzzy, and I think you are right. Very clean. I'll try and duplicate something to that nature on my build.

Sadly, mom doesn't understand why I need a new computer after only having my HP 2 years. I tried explaining to her the idea of having the computer in the living room and how recording took time out of my computing, but she's not convinced. Dad thinks it's a great idea. I think it's rediculous that I have to convince her to let me give her something for free and buy myself something. I'll win her over though. Somehow...

I think she's intimidated by the fact that there will be a computer in the living room. She has enough trouble working the system as it is.

[Whizbang]

Mama's never do understand.  After a lot of pros and cons on the subject for many years, I have realized that a computer can be the best psycho-therapy around if applied in a morally constrained environment, which is to say for decent and educational purposes.  It is also about the cheapest way to make contacts, purchase products, and just chill out, as well as learn to be more technically proficient  in unlimited areas, including typing (Mavis Beacon).  

Regarding the modding of the cables, the beauty of keeping the ribbons is that you can also add expanding flourescent sleeves later and simply hold them in place with pull ties or colored electrical tape.  I purchased a big container of pull ties from Wal-Mart  for about $6.00.  All the colors you would ever want are in the package, and in great number.  I also found that longer ribbons are easier to route and keep out of sight.  Every time you get a new mainboard, you get more ribbon cables.  You also can get them on Ebay in great quantities for peanuts.  That allows for a lot of classy and cheap experimentation.

3M has packs of 5 colors of vinyl tape, and Kmart and Wal-Mart sell them.

[Carskick]

Luckily, our garage is ful of things such as tie-wraps and electrical tape, so I won't need to buy any of that stuff. The only thing I'll need like that may be thermal greese if I decide to use it over the included pad. Is it worth it? The athlon 64 has that head disipater anyways, so shouldn't the pad be fine?

[Bill]

Cars,
I can only speak from one experience but I used the stock pad and fan that came with my A64 3000 and temps are fine.

Bill

[Whizbang]

Probably the only time you would need the grease is if you remove the heatsink and displace the pad or damage it.  I know there are purists who say that the pad is not good, but AMD took great care to include it with the CPU to insure that the CPU would not "flame" out.  I have never removed the new pad, only a used one once it is deformed.  I also have seen no measurable difference between stock grease on the older CPUs and Arctic Silver, but I always go with Arctic Silver anyway.   :-\

[Carskick]

Okay, well I've made a deal wth Mother, and I will be ordering my new computer parts sometime next week.

I have a question about putting in the ribbons still. How do you hold them down? Electrical tape? Thanks.

Edit: Also, I am considering getting a cheap AGP card for my current PC, soon to be HTPC, and put the FX5600 Ultra in our other computer to replace it's PCI MX420. What is the best choice for a cheap HTPC video card? I found FX5200s for less than $40 on newegg. Another choice is the Radeon 9550, which costs $55 for a 128 bit model. I don't think the extra power of the Radeon 9550 is really needed, but if we ever want to use if for gaming... What do you think would be the best card for the price in this category?

[Whizbang]

Okay, well I've made a deal wth Mother, and I will be ordering my new computer parts sometime next week.

I have a question about putting in the ribbons still. How do you hold them down? Electrical tape? Thanks.

I assume you are refering to IDE modified flat ribbons.  I use ones that are long enough so that I can place them out of the way and out of air flow.  I put a velcro pad on the case where I want to anchor the cable and attach the "W" folded IDE cable with the crowsfeet tape to that point.  Discount stores have rolls of velcro that fill the bill.  When I first started putting computers together, I would always use the shortest cables that I could.  I have since learned that proper routing requires longer cables to clean up the appearance and help prevent dislodging things from mainboard.

[Carskick]

Okay, sounds good. I hope the cable that come with my mobo are long enough. I also think we have some velcro pads in the garage.

[scuzzy]

For my daughter's system, I used double-sided tape to keep the ribbons in place. It's nice, simple, and keeps a tidy-looking system.

[Carskick]

Sounds good, but will standard double-sided tape loose its stick due to heat?

[Whizbang]

Any pressure sensitive tape will deteriorate with age, but there is little pressure put on the tape by the cable.

[scuzzy]

As noted by Whizbang, little pressure will be exerted on the tape. The thing to consider will be the coating on the ribbon cable. If it's waxy, then my idea may not work well.

Try a piece of double-sided tape on the ribbon first, to see how well it sticks. You might also try carpet tape, since it's wider and may have more holding power.

[Carskick]

Okay, sounds good. I will be able to order my parts this week. My list hasn't changed much from the last poasted. The only difference is that I am getting a different brand 6600GT.

[halokid]

Okay, sounds good. I will be able to order my parts this week. My list hasn't changed much from the last poasted. The only difference is that I am getting a different brand 6600GT.

what brand of 6600gt are you getting?
I bought a msi 6600gt with vivo from newegg,
but had to return it for a replacement because the card came disattached from the heat sink...
so if it comes back in working condition then it wil be a good buy, if it doesnt then i might try and get another brand.

[Carskick]

I am getting the Gigabyte AGP 6600GT for several reasons. One, it's a reasonably priced 1Ghz memory version of the card, and it got very good ratings for stablity, overclockability, etc. It's pimary down side is that it doesn't include any games I'd really want. Then again, most of the 6600GTs don't.

[Carskick]

I was thinking again tonight, and I was wondering how well the Corsair valueram will respond to a minor overclock? But to get RAM rated at higher than 400Mhz costs a lot more. So I began browsing, and saw a 512 stick of OCZ Premier series with a heatspreader. If I got two, the price would total about $95. Do you think two of these would perform better in my new system? And would they be more likely to withstand a small overclock? At least they're prettier, and OCZ is a great brand. What do you all think? Thanks.

Edit: I also just read that overclocking doesn't void the warranty on the OCZ, as long as you don't up the voltage. Sounds good to me.  ;)

[scuzzy]

Here's a closeup of the ribbon cable layout for my daughter's computer. To keep the ribbon in place, I used double-sided carpet tape (indoor/outdoor) that I purchased at Wal-Mart. It's the "Duck" brand tape, and goes for about $3 or $4 a roll. It's a pain to work with, but it works well.


Click the photo for the full picture:

[Carskick]

Wow, that looks really great Scuzzy! It gave me some great ideas for mine. Thanks. Just hope the IDEs they give me are long enough.  ;)

Also, if anybody knows anything about that RAM, let me know ASAP. I think I am going to get it, as it has better timings than the value corsair, will likely be more stable with the heat spreaders. Let me know. I will be ordering between today and wednesday most likely. Thanks!

[Carskick]

Dang!

Check this memory out!

http://anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2392&p=8

Anand says it is the old VX series in value packaging, and they were able to get it up 490Mhz at 2-2-2-6 timings! The catch is you have to significantly up the voltage. Now I doubt I'd ever go that high, but I may up the voltage a little to improve the timings and get a small overclock. I don't trust major overclocks for long term reliability, although most have relatively few problems for years. Of course the overclocking process will be done very slowly, and not immediately. As long as I am careful, the worse that should happen is that I have to push the settings back. And if I get to the edge, I go way back. If I end up getting two random sticks like Anand got, I'll be in business, starting with only minor uppings once I get the system broken in.

Even if I only do timing overclocks, the charts say that gives a very significant boost over RAMs that cost very similarily. I am very excited, and will hopefully get this all ordered tonight. Since this is my first true build, I will take it very slowly to make sure it is done right the first time. I will take pictures of it along the way to share with you guys.

Edit: I was reading my mobo manual online, and disovered my max mem voltage is 2.8v, so I cannot achieve what anandtech did. This is probably for the best, as 2.8v on this memory should not be even close to causing problems. I'll just have to see what kind of timings or overclock I can get at 2.8v. I thought an Epox board would have higher settings, but I'm not concerned, as this was just meant to be a small overclock, and only editing the timings may be the safest way to speed up the system. It works very well, as anand demonstrates.

[slaxorz]

OCZ has been getting great reviews for a while now.  They are kinda like the second tier motherboard companies such as biostar they seem to churn out great products that are barely noticed because big boys (eg. corsair) have alot more advertising presence.  I personally own the valu-ram that corsair makes and have it oc'd to about 449mhz stable but then again you never know with these things.

[Carskick]

Wow, that's awesome. I hadn't heard it could do things like that. As you saw earlier, maybe at least, I was going to go with the corsair value ram. It may still be a good possiblity. But for $15 extra, I get the RAM Anand got to 490Mhz at 2-2-2-6, mind you at 3.5v, so I'll never achieve that, and never plan to. However, the mobo I am getting will go to 2.8v, so it may give me some play room. I wonder whether it is better to get the timings down or the Mhz up? timings down may put less stress on the system. However, there are no bragging rights to that. If I say I got my system from 1.8Ghz to 2.4Ghz, people know what I'm talking about. If I say I overclocked my system by getting my memory down to 2-2-2-6, most will be confused. But that isn't most important. Most important is performance to wear ratio. I don't want to put too much extra strain on the system, but I do want optimal performance. I'm sorry, I think I'm rambling again. Thinking out loud. But timings vs Mhz is still a question that burns in my brain.