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The price of gas (?)

Started by pat, November 13, 2008, 18:02 hrs

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pat

Bought gas today for 1.89 a gal.

I think the highest I paid last summer was 4.39, what difference that makes.

I just didn't think we'd ever see gas at these prices again.

And who knows what's next?????
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scuzzy

I have seen it down to $1.939 in my neck of the woods, and I've heard that some gas stations in Colorado Springs have been as low as the one-eighties.

Although this might seem odd, I have concerns that the price has fallen in the manner that it has. Don't misunderstand, I like paying less. However, I'm trying to look at the larger picture.

[begin rant]

As I see it, gas prices have tumbled for all the wrong reasons. Because of the horrible world economics and various factors that have caused inflation to rise, the demand for oil went south. In turn, prices have fallen through the floor. This is not good news if you consider that this translates to less jobs and less money to go around.

As an American, I'm also concerned that we will very quickly forget the pain at the pump that we recently experienced, and how much worse it can get. Which means that we won't prioritize off-shore drilling. So the next time that the price of gas shoots to $4.00+ per gallon, we will be right back at square one, whining and complaining about how nothing is being done. Only I expect that the "next time" will be much worse than the last.

I'm also concerned that as a society we seem have no issue with continuing to rely on unpredictable, and sometimes radical governments to feed our endless need for oil. We need to desperately get away from depending on Venezuela and Arab nations to provide the overwhelming majority of our oil. If we don't, the day will come that we will very seriously and horribly regret our apathy.

[end rant]
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Bill

Amen Pat.  But in addition to the slowing economy, we have in fact reduced the number of miles Americans are driving.  Usage of mass transit has at least doubled, and those that get 'comfortable' reading the paper on the train may stay there.

Bill
Antec 3700 | Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R | Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz | 4 GB (4x1GB) DDR2 PC 5300 Kingston RAM | Antec NeoPower 550W | eVGA GeForce 9500GT 1GB 128 bit PCI Express 2.0 | Intel SSD X25-M 80GB | VelociRaptor 150GB | WD 80GB 7200rpm |Samsung 22x SATA Burner |Windows 7 32-bit

scuzzy

I don't think it's all doom and gloom, and I hope something good will come out of this one way or the other. I think it's great for everyone that the use of mass transit has increased, and I hope that trend continues.

I also hope that manufacturers will continue to build alternatives, and not return to massive gas hogs for their primary source of profit.
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Buffalo2102

You guys have it easy -

Petrol (gas) prices in the UK have just returned to a reasonable price but it's still around Ã?£0.95 a litre - that's about $6.40 a gallon to you.  During the recent fuel price craziness, I was paying the equivalent of $8.73 for a gallon of diesel.

Buff

Vista x64 Home Premium. Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Abit IP35, 4 Gig Kingston HyperX PC8500C5 DDR2, GTX260, Creative X-Fi Extreme Gamer, Antec 900 Gaming Case.

scuzzy

#5
Ouch. I recall that when I was in Germany in the 90s, the average price of gas for the citizens came out to about $3.50 a gallon. As a GI, I paid about
$1.25 a gallon.

What you folks have going for you is dependable, well thought out mass transit. Ours leaves a lot to be desired. I think the best we have is the subway system in Washington, DC, which is a marvel. Most of the rest of our country runs on a "good luck" system.
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Bill

Ouch is right.  SC is around $2.00 on average yesterday but prices are falling as fast as the oil futures.  A month ago we were around $3.85.  I have seen a couple in the low $1.90s.

Speaking of mass transit, the NYC subway system is pretty decent, not always clean, but moves millions every day.  BART in San Francisco is pretty decent too.

Mass transit in and around Deliverance, SC is almost non-existent.  Very limited bus system and doesn't seem very reliable.  Even so, when gas prices were approaching $4, the morning rush traffic was down by a third, and it's still lower than a year ago.

Bill
Antec 3700 | Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R | Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz | 4 GB (4x1GB) DDR2 PC 5300 Kingston RAM | Antec NeoPower 550W | eVGA GeForce 9500GT 1GB 128 bit PCI Express 2.0 | Intel SSD X25-M 80GB | VelociRaptor 150GB | WD 80GB 7200rpm |Samsung 22x SATA Burner |Windows 7 32-bit

scuzzy

I recall using BART in the 70s, and I have to admit that it was pretty impressive. I never tried NYC's subway.

Washington DC's subway is fast, clean, dependable, affordable and on time. It's a pleasure to use in comparison to driving in and around DC.
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Bill

Consider yourself lucky.  NYC is a great place to not go.

Bill
Antec 3700 | Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R | Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz | 4 GB (4x1GB) DDR2 PC 5300 Kingston RAM | Antec NeoPower 550W | eVGA GeForce 9500GT 1GB 128 bit PCI Express 2.0 | Intel SSD X25-M 80GB | VelociRaptor 150GB | WD 80GB 7200rpm |Samsung 22x SATA Burner |Windows 7 32-bit

scuzzy

I've been to NYC lots of times, thanks to a 7-year military assignment in New Jersey. But I never bothered with their mass transit, except for a single bus ride when I was leaving the country. That bus ride left a lot to be desired.
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Ace

#10
I've ridden the DC Metro. It was ai'ght.  Gas in Michiana is cheap, as Pat noted.  No way do I think Diesel (Vin?) is the answer; first thing, it's burning the Midnight Oil.  Secondly, we don't subsidize it here like in the Euros. Drilling for oil is fine, plus we're about halfway through our total supply, from what I understand... Although what's left will probably be a chore to extricate.  I've read that gas engines will get more diesel like and diesels more gas like until they're pretty much same diff.

Sunpower, windpower, dirty old Canadian oil, clean coal; sure.  Let's have at them all.  But $50k hybrid SUV's aren't gonna turn the world.  And any vehicle cost more than it saves isn't an incentive.  And trashing the food crop for fuel (corn ethanol) is counter productive if corn/sugar/beef go over the roof.

Best idea?  Clone and bring back dinosaurs; compress them... heat/rinse/repeat:  Oil.  And for some reason, McCain seems to resemble a T-Rex to me, with those short arms and leathery visage...

So many energy answers seem to fail to factor in the energy costs... to make it, produce it, transport it, convert to it...  Like T-Boone Pickens "let's just convert to Natural Gas for Cars."  Ok, and let's figure the conversion costs of trashing the gas station/storage/delivery system.  Or Hydrogen fuel; let's see just how much that takes to get it (it ain't floating free...)/compile it/store it/delivery it/carry it along.  Plus keep it from igniting waaay before you meant it to.  What happens when that hybrid's battery goes bad?  How much to replace?  Where do you dump it?  Inquiring minds want to know.

For the time bean, I'm glad gas is cheaper.  I'll take what I can get.  I've got a used Taurus that's 22 or so city and 30 highway.  And for what it costs, it's cost effective over buying new for something less.  You know, if it was all new and we were comparing every source, oil/gas would seem a pretty efficient fuel if it just came out...  I feel for Ford and GM, but not much.  First off, quit building bloated crap nobody wants.  Secondly (Ford) why don't you build the cool Euro versions of your cars and actually offer them here...?  Fourthly, set up a plant in the US for a change...  I have a hard time accepting an American car made out of the country is more American than a Japanese car made here.  Yes, I know the money is heading to an overseas corporate entity, but the jobs and lifestyle and investment of one is with Americans and the other ain't. 

I'd rant further, but I'm not here.  I'm not even lurking.  Actually, I'm watching Ghost Whisperer with my wife.  Really.

Not Ace.  Not here.
Ring bells for service.

Buffalo2102

Some good points, well made.

I even agree with some.  I reckon drivers should be vetted for their needs before they are allowed to buy a car.  Then they are given a choice of motor depending on those needs.  It would stop the all-too-common sight of suburban mums dropping off their kid(s) to school in a gas-guzzling 4x4 when they've only driven on smooth tarmaced roads and will probably never ever go off-road in their lives (except to mount the kerb while attempting to park).


Buff; Well, it's nice of you to not drop by, anyway.
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Bill

Vetting of needs is not a bad idea.  But the whole concept of some overbearing 'govermint' (only in SC)
telling us freedom loving Yanks what we can and cannot buy is replusive to some of us.  Secondly, the overriding justification for a soccer mom driving a Hummer is safety.  "What if some redneck runs a stop sign and my two darling, precious children are in the back seat of a Taurus?"

Overreaction? Surely, but nevertheless, the idea has sold a lot of SUVs.

Bill
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pat

I don't exactly feel sorry for anyone that decided to buy one of those huge gas guzzlers. Or do I think bailing out the American auto industry, without some sort of  benefit for the taxpayer is a good idea. Shoot, if you're going to drive a Hummer, don't complain if the price of gas goes up or conversely, if you're going to go after and depend on the high profit margin, big SUV-Truck market and basically ignore the smaller more fuel efficient market and get caught in a tough market who is to blame except those that run those companies. 
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Bill

Ah, GM thy name is greed.  Suffer the consequences, reorganize and renegoiate with the unions. 
Maybe better yet, file Chapter 11 and start over. 

Providing a multi-billion $ loan without requiring significant and extensive changes in operations and structure will only lead to another multi-billion loan loan later, IMHO.

Bill
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Ace

You know, we build Hummers here.  Not for long, though, and not really for a civilian market for even that long.  We did get one of the contracts for the next generation military whatever.  You know what's funny is that the US automakers basically stopped bothering to build cars.  Trucks? Sure. SUVs? Cross overs? You betcha. But second rate auto mobiles.  Probably the most world class competitive US car is the Chevy Malibu.  And GM shut off production in that plant, at one point.  I really think they're too stupid to live. Plus,

shoot. I was gonna say something else, but I just remembered I'm not here.

dangit.  Guess I'll go snooze in the janitor's closet...
Ring bells for service.

scuzzy

"Bob" made some good points. Too bad Ace isn't here to read them. I especially like the Jurassic Park idea.

I also agree with Pat's observation of bailing out the car manufacturers, as I am a firm believer in accountability - all the way from my our 13 year old to the President to the Pope. And everyone in between. Especially Bill Gates and Steve Jobs. Windows 7 better NOT take more than 100MB of space on my 1TG hard drive, or their will be h*ck to pay. For me.

What can we do other than speculate, raise our children properly (with an occasional good ol' fashioned butt busting) and trudge forward?

Scuzzy; I for one don't need an SUV to jump the "kerb"
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Bill

There is one thing we can do.  When someone starts complaining, one of the first things I ask is "Did you Vote?"

Bill
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scuzzy

From R.E.M.'s It's The End Of The World As We Know It:

Offer me solutions, offer me alternatives and I decline.

It's the end of the world as we know it (and I feel fine)
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Bill

#19
The creativity of some folks is amazing. 

But points well made.

Bill; too much to ponder.
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Ace

It's hard to sleep around here with you guys talking.  You guys also sure have a high opinion of yourselves; you talk about maybe closing the doors and now it's "The End Of the World."  Geez Louise.  Like there isn't some Chinese Chatroom Chomping at the bit to take over this space... 

They'd probably need a Jester about as much as an assembler on an automated robotic production line.  Maybe a janitor, though.  There will always be service jobs, I've been told. 

Anyway, I did vote.  My brother works for the state, so he had the whole day off to vote.  I don't know if he voted, but he did get his car worked on and played golf.  Well, tried to.  I've never actually known him to play golf, but he does go out on the course and does something, not that it resembles golf.  I like the idea of making election day a holiday, so people can do that.  I voted at 6:15 to 6:45 that morning.  Since I had to go to work, after, unlike my brother and his lazybutt state bureacracy job.  Bureacrat Bozo.

Ace; at least the funnybone room stays clean since the monkeys left.

Ring bells for service.

Bill

All of the automotive automatic production lines are coming to a halt anyway.  But there will probably be a lot of garbage and other junk to take care of, afterwards.

Voting times in Deliverance ranged from 45 minutes (I was lucky) to my wife who waited 3 1/4 hours.
My first preference would be voting on line.  Secondly, voting during a 2day period over a weekend with very restrictive absentee ballot criteria.

Bill; we lost. I'm not ready for the world to change.
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pat

I voted, no wait, just walked in and voted.

One of the big winners this year was Nate Silver over at fivethirtyeight.com he was very close on his election predictions. I was a frequent visitor to his site this past election season and still check in to see what's going on there.

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Ace

Well, I would think it'd be easier to make election predictions at this point.  A couple weeks after.

You know, the biggest loser in this year's elections had to be Tina Fey.  Oh, and Joe the Plumber.  I wonder if there's "Pat the Plumber." 

I found it weird to see all the people standing in lines to vote absentee, so that they could avoid standing in lines to vote.  My hunch is that nobody ever did bother to count those... I mean, who's gonna know?  And who wants to bother.  Just pack them up in boxes and put them out for recycling. 

Ace; in a blue blue blue blue state....
Ring bells for service.

Bill

Well don't hold your breathe for wonderous fixes, you'll turn just as blue!.

Bill
Antec 3700 | Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R | Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz | 4 GB (4x1GB) DDR2 PC 5300 Kingston RAM | Antec NeoPower 550W | eVGA GeForce 9500GT 1GB 128 bit PCI Express 2.0 | Intel SSD X25-M 80GB | VelociRaptor 150GB | WD 80GB 7200rpm |Samsung 22x SATA Burner |Windows 7 32-bit