• Welcome to Poasters Computer Forums.
 

News:

Welcome to the ARCHIVED Poasters Computer Forums (Read Only)

Main Menu

More Vista Badness

Started by Chandler, January 24, 2007, 16:39 hrs

Previous topic - Next topic

Chandler

If all of the talk about DRM and activation wasn't enough to scare you off buying Windows Vista, how about this.  Windows Vista does not include the HAL for DirectSound/DirectSound3D to allow DirectX to utilise hardware acceleration.

This is a huge step backwards in my opinion.

Since the demise of Aureal, and the inclusion of cheap Realtek junk on motherboards, the sound card market has been moving backwards.  In fact, Creative are the only company which offer hardware accelerated sound cards, but now in Vista even these won't do anything special.  Now, you may think that with a fast CPU there is no need for DirectSound hardware acceleration but you couldn't be further from the truth.

The thing Microsoft don't tell you (remember, they're doing all this for stability, not for some ulterior motive) is that the hardware features are responsible for a lot:
- hardware sound buffers (32 or 64 on Live/Audigy cards)
- hardware sample rate conversion (better quality than software resampling)
- 3D HRTF and positioning (why spend years and millions developing accurate and convincing 3D positional audio if we're just going to use a rubbish software approximation)
- EAX (high quality DSP-based reverb effects)
- offloading CPU usage for all of that

I've heard what happens when you do all of that in software.  Try playing a decent game with Realtek AC97 in Windows XP and you'll find the reverb fake and 3D sound unconvincing.  A gamer can solve this by going out and buying a Creative Audigy or X-Fi card.

But now in Windows Vista, you'll be stuck with the rubbish software approximation.  It's not all doom and gloom though; Creative are developing a system tray app (yes, more resources) that convert DirectSound calls into OpenAL.  Bad news about this though is:
- I can guarantee it's not going to be perfect, just as companies have never perfected DOS emulation
- the current list of supported games is small
- it's only supported by Creative's latest flagship product, the X-Fi.  Time to buy a new sound card folks.

In summary, I was steering clear of Vista for the time being, but as it stands, I will avoid upgrading to it for as long as I possibly can.  Why would I want to buy a crippled OS that offers very little than a glitsy GUI.

halokid

 My analogy of AOL software seems to be more and more applicable to Vista as time goes on: A nicely wrapped package with dog poo inside.

Chandler

#2
OK I may have been unfairly harsh on Microsoft for this one.  In fact I take it back, I take it all back.  While it does suck that DirectSound acceleration has been removed, the new audio engine in Vista does seem very good, and there is absolutely no comparison between software mixing in XP to the new software mixing in Vista.

Microsoft have actually got this right, and the interface more than anything.

First of all, there are pictorial guides to where you plug everything in, and on my new Dell E521 it differentiates between front and rear inputs.


Setting up speakers is easy too, with plenty of options including type of speakers...


Whether you have any full-range speakers as opposed to just satellites (something that is lacking in say Creative's own XP drivers)...


And finally the killer two features.  If you're still using a stereo source but lucky enough to own a Pro-Logic decoder (like me - Pro-Logic is still essential for TV surround) there is a matrix encoder strangely called Virtual Surround (Creative dropped this kind of thing years ago much to my dismay):


And if you're using a 4.1/5.1/7.1 speaker set, there is upmixing to all speakers (Speaker Fill):


Notice all the other enhancements too.  These aren't just dodgy sound mangling features - they're actually useful, such as bass redirection.  I suspect that Microsoft (or possibly 3rd party vendors) have the ability to add additional enhancements to this panel.  Creative seem like a prime candidate with the power of their dedicated DSPs (but they'll probably going and bring out a new card and expect us to buy that  ::)).

One of the things that concerned me about software mixing was poor quality sample rate conversion, but it doesn't look like this is going to be a problem.  The SRC quality seems good, and you can even choose the desired sample and bitrate:


In can almost forgive them for sacrificing DirectSound now...

More information on these features are available here:
http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/windowsvista/articles/450038.aspx

Buffalo2102

I suspect that the vast majority of users don't know what reverb and sound buffers are.  As long as it "sounds alright" then I don't expect they give two hoots how it's done.

Buff; hoot hoot
Vista x64 Home Premium. Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Abit IP35, 4 Gig Kingston HyperX PC8500C5 DDR2, GTX260, Creative X-Fi Extreme Gamer, Antec 900 Gaming Case.

Chandler

Now I take back taking it back  ::), because things don't seem to work all that well.  Unfortunately, the HD Audio drivers don't even pretend to support DirectSound3D and the end result is that the games simply fall back to basic 2-channel stereo.  So while this Pro-Logic encoding could have been quite good, it isn't, because it never gets the chance to be used.  For example, in GTA San Andreas with kx drivers configured for Pro-Logic encoding under XP, I can clearly hear traffic noises behind me.  Doing the same under Vista, even with virtual surround on, gives me sounds to left and right.  Rightmark 3D Audio test exhibits similar results - there is absolutely nothing coming from the rear and everything is just stereo panned.

Microsoft should have designed the UAA so that it always presents 7.1 channels to programs and games and always indicates that DirectSound3D hardware is available.  That way, the games would happily send audio in their full channel glory and the new audio mixer handles all of the downmixing/upmixing.  As it is, the situation is just as bad as I initially thought it was.

Perhaps many users won't miss reverb and very few will actually care whether the sounds are hardware or software generated.  But I'd say that there's a pretty huge chance that they'll notice they no longer have surround sound in their games.